Since this is a dac thread, I will try to give the short story. The Topping D90 design is less complex and less sophisticated than DAC-3. Without getting into the topology of DAC-3, D90 has two good clocks, an FPGA mostly for signal routing but also to reduce the PCM I2S input by ~3dB (AK4499 sounds 'better' that way -- less distorted), and a superior, later generation dac chip (both in terms of measured specifications and in terms of subjective sound quality). Elegance of design, and manufacturing in China are keys to the low price, and a better dac chip is what makes it possible at all.
All the foregoing IMHO only!
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Who's "he"? Can you both give references/quotes reletive to your perceptions of the situation to which you refer so others may judge the validity of your perceptions for themselves? Seems only right and on topic, don't you think?
Thanks - I'm curious to hear the Topping, will keep my eyes (and ears) peeled for one. I plan to attend a show in Shanghai in June (postponed from this month), hoping there will be an example there for me to evaluate.
If the question in post #1482 was addressed to me, the 'he' there was @scottjoplin, the post referred to where words were twisted was #1444. The 'olive branch' offer was post #1442.
If the question in post #1482 was addressed to me, the 'he' there was @scottjoplin, the post referred to where words were twisted was #1444. The 'olive branch' offer was post #1442.
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That wasn't too hard was it? Any chance the two of you could get back on topic now? Although that was an interesting example of individual perceptions and bias, thanks.
A new one may need to run a few days (~2-3) to settle in, YMMV. The dac is powered on all the time internally unless the power switch on the back is turned off.
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That last volley was painful! 😉
What I don’t get is why subjective opinions bother some so much.....it isn’t the gospel, it’s an opinion and much like a certain southbound orifice, everyone has one.
I get that people may hear a little differently and the room comes into play but most (choose a random percentage above half) setup their systems to a well recognized standard (just look at pics of random systems) and those of healthy mind without physical detriment are going to have more in common than not when it comes to preferences in sound quality.
If you don’t think there’s any relevance to a subjective opinion than ignore it, carry on........I find it useful to average these opinions to see if a piece of gear is even worth further investigation.
So far this has only bit me in the behind once.....it’s ok though it didn’t need sutures! 😛
What I don’t get is why subjective opinions bother some so much.....it isn’t the gospel, it’s an opinion and much like a certain southbound orifice, everyone has one.
I get that people may hear a little differently and the room comes into play but most (choose a random percentage above half) setup their systems to a well recognized standard (just look at pics of random systems) and those of healthy mind without physical detriment are going to have more in common than not when it comes to preferences in sound quality.
If you don’t think there’s any relevance to a subjective opinion than ignore it, carry on........I find it useful to average these opinions to see if a piece of gear is even worth further investigation.
So far this has only bit me in the behind once.....it’s ok though it didn’t need sutures! 😛
I always thought subjective fundamentalists were a bunch of over sensitive wusses 😉
Why do they get so upset when asked what better means?
Better is a performance comparison......within the same given parameters does one exude more real/accurate sound than the other? I for some reason prefer es9018 dac chip than any other ess chip including the ‘superior’ es9038......of course I’m basing that on only a handful of direct comparisons between different ess implementations. There just seems to be something ‘right’ about it to me. You can take that as bs, or maybe you might take it a step further trying a direct comparison for yourself based on my opinion.
Would your own opinion then be biased by mine? Not with a little applied aptitude.....one would hope everyone is capable of discerning ‘better’ for themselves.
Would your own opinion then be biased by mine? Not with a little applied aptitude.....one would hope everyone is capable of discerning ‘better’ for themselves.
Definition of better from Merriam Webster:
2: improved in health or mental attitude
3: more attractive, favorable, or commendable
Does not have to reflect accuracy at all, improved mental attitude or more favorable is valid enough.
2: improved in health or mental attitude
3: more attractive, favorable, or commendable
Does not have to reflect accuracy at all, improved mental attitude or more favorable is valid enough.
So it is just a personal preference based on listening? I get that. But people's perceptions and preferences are different, for example I'm very happy to be deluded, and probably complicit in the delusion that enables me to believe there's an orchestra inside my speakers. How is that supposed to help someone else? As far as I can see you and Mark and JC etc aren't saying much different than that, if you are please enlighten me.
Quote: Originally Posted by scott wurcer "The proper thing to do would be to try any R and L and compare"
Quote: Originally Posted by Bob "I think the one tested was 1/4 ohm r with a total device r as 3/10 or so. I know it sounds insignificant but how it interacts with the rest of the circuit/system may be more the question?"
30 some odd years ago, at a similar "Audio" board hosted at Digital Equipment corp, a major contributor needed a pair of right angle RCA adapters in a hurry, so he bought them from RS. He posted a note claiming he could hear the difference with the adapters inserted in his line level cable.
Ensuing discussion and energy over his claim rivaled that being presented here.
He would NOT budge from his stated perception - no matter what engineering based logic was applied to rationalize his claim. Since then I've learned never to challenge what another claims to be able to hear. We'll probably never know if it was just the perception of introducing something from "Radio Shack" temporarily into a high end system signal path really did something, or, just the thought of doing so did something.
Of course, 30 years from now, someone in a forum will claim they can hear a difference in their tympanic direct-drive implants after they switch source device brands - even though it can be shown that the transmitted bit streams in either case are identical. Much discussion, gnashing of teeth and calling out of competency will ensue -
IMHO, Delusion is real, we all have it to varying degrees and those degrees vary over time / place / experience. The best approach is to be wary of it and watch for it - especially around those with the silver tongue. Even in my own experiments - the linear regulated power supply is supposed to sound best; better than the cheap switcher, which did sound worse than the better-branded switcher, just like it was supposed to. Is what I'm hearing real? Seems so. Could I pass double blind A-B-C test? Maybe on a good day...
Quote: Originally Posted by Bob "I think the one tested was 1/4 ohm r with a total device r as 3/10 or so. I know it sounds insignificant but how it interacts with the rest of the circuit/system may be more the question?"
30 some odd years ago, at a similar "Audio" board hosted at Digital Equipment corp, a major contributor needed a pair of right angle RCA adapters in a hurry, so he bought them from RS. He posted a note claiming he could hear the difference with the adapters inserted in his line level cable.
Ensuing discussion and energy over his claim rivaled that being presented here.
He would NOT budge from his stated perception - no matter what engineering based logic was applied to rationalize his claim. Since then I've learned never to challenge what another claims to be able to hear. We'll probably never know if it was just the perception of introducing something from "Radio Shack" temporarily into a high end system signal path really did something, or, just the thought of doing so did something.
Of course, 30 years from now, someone in a forum will claim they can hear a difference in their tympanic direct-drive implants after they switch source device brands - even though it can be shown that the transmitted bit streams in either case are identical. Much discussion, gnashing of teeth and calling out of competency will ensue -
IMHO, Delusion is real, we all have it to varying degrees and those degrees vary over time / place / experience. The best approach is to be wary of it and watch for it - especially around those with the silver tongue. Even in my own experiments - the linear regulated power supply is supposed to sound best; better than the cheap switcher, which did sound worse than the better-branded switcher, just like it was supposed to. Is what I'm hearing real? Seems so. Could I pass double blind A-B-C test? Maybe on a good day...
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I’ve stated several times in the past that accuracy and realism are my ‘better’
There’s a bit of difference in describing properties/attributes compared to something like ‘it makes me believe there’s an orchestra inside my speakers’ that could only happen in your deluded head! 😀
Edit.... although I have used the descriptor of ‘like being in a snow globe of music’, so I have no firm ground to stand! 😛
Joe, some of the differences I notice (say in a component swap) are so minute they can only be detected when your not trying to hear it......the pressure/engagement to identify must come without anxiety.
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Since some people are under the delusion that this thread is about DACs that's easy, compare the output to the input 😉
If it’s that easy then why does nobody do it? (With a real music signal that is)
Everyone seems only concerned with a 1k test tone
Everyone seems only concerned with a 1k test tone