One last suggestion: if a member X works for a company Z then please do not discredit because he or she is also makes a living in the field of audio. That is no shame.
I understand the need for trying to keep things transparent, but don't forget that most members here have some technical understanding, and they will eventually see through when a member is only posting PR for a company.
I saw members asking for credentials and another member responding that the person in question is working for company Z. I think that's below the belt. I hope that we can stay polite and not target people with suspicion or disdain if there is no concrete evidence that they have malicious intend.
I understand the need for trying to keep things transparent, but don't forget that most members here have some technical understanding, and they will eventually see through when a member is only posting PR for a company.
I saw members asking for credentials and another member responding that the person in question is working for company Z. I think that's below the belt. I hope that we can stay polite and not target people with suspicion or disdain if there is no concrete evidence that they have malicious intend.
Well... lets not be too hasty. If someone wants to buy a $600 capacitor for their crossover and has disposable I won't grumble, but if they recommend someone else to do it I will wave a flag. But stomping around being negative about everything is not good for anyone
That's a good example. I do use 60 dollar caps in front of 500 dollar tweeters, and personally I would consider 600 dollar for a cap a nonsensical investment, but that's just me...
Maybe the guy that spends 600 dollar on a cap gets great satisfaction of it. If he posts his enthusiasm here, why should I ridicule him? Of course I can post a reaction that in my view I would invest the money on other places, but that's about all there is to say to it. If others like to follow him, I have no right to ridicule them.
Anyway, I rather see them spending 600 dollar on caps than on drugs or armoury...
But if X says 'your speakers will sound rubbish UNLESS you buy $600 caps' then there should be a firm push back, esp as expensive caps are usually worse than cheap ones and I don't see anyone using wet slug tantalums anywhere...
Okay, sounds reasonable so far. Where things go wrong is in the nature of the push. Some people's brains tell them that the only possible explanation for such a cap recommendation is that the individual who made the recommendation has evil intent. An explanation of that type is usually a constructed one, what soundbloke would term a delusion.
In fact, some people simply believe that $600 caps (or whatever) make a big difference is sound quality. They may be right or wrong, but remember: The guy recommending a $600 cap is probably just as deluded as everyone else. A reasonable push back might be to tell them that most people don't want to and will not spend $600 on a cap no matter what it can do, and that they don't want to hear any more said about it. Period.
What if they say: After I listened to it, I had two friends come over, one at a time. I told each one, "listen to this and tell me what you hear, describe it in as much detail as needed." Then I compared what it sounded like to me with what my two friends said it sounded like to them. Turns out all three of us described hearing the exact same thing, and each of us further felt it sounded more like Benchmark AHB2 than the Aragon 8008.
If all that happened, is the guy in your example still only allowed to say 'my personal preference' and no more?
No that is not what I said (or intended). A delusion is that which is maintained by someone in face of all evidence to the contrary - that is to say it is their inherent belief rather than a deliberate effort to mislead and exploit the gullibility of one or more others.
That is closer to my contributions in this thread since it includes the possibility for delusion as well as the identification of some genuinely audible artefact that is requiring of objective confirmation.
I had not seen this before - when I looked at Bybee Technologies LLC - Innovative Audio and Video Upgrade Products, my first reaction was that it was a spoof! Whilst statements such as "indestinquisable to the human ear" presumably avoid prosecution for mis-selling, that some appear to pay this sort of blatant nonsense shows very well how one's perception is not always a faithful representation of reality.
I would hope that the purpose of a forum is for the exchange of ideas and ultimately the education of all its contributors. As such, the beliefs of all should be welcome, just as should be the rigorous testing of those beliefs by others - and hopefully therefore the highlighting any charlatan in our midst.
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It is no more than a possible interpretation of the results and as a subjective protocol it is prone to bias on many levels. The fundamental flaws in purely subjective assessments remain. Until the "subjectivists" on this forum address those shortcomings, then their assertions will always be open to legitimate criticism here. But for the reasons cited in my previous posts, addressing the shortcomings in such subjectivist assessments is much easier than the identification of false hypotheses that are required by the objectivists to dismiss those results.
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Exactly, some people may believe $600 caps are better, despite measurements showing otherwise. However, around here people who believe such things are branded as evil predatory psychopaths even when there is only flimsy circumstantial evidence if any evidence at all, e.g. presumption of guilt by association. Not unlike Salem witch accusations, only where the forum witches are out to mislead and exploit gullibility.
That wasn't the question. The question was: Is it still one person's personal preference and nothing else?
Problem is you are very close to coaching the listener there and biasing them. Not audioquest hifi show demo levels but certainly hard to make it neutral.
Preference is not the critical issue (and I am not even sure that a personal preference can be the subject of any debate at all). The critical issue (that is open to debate) is whether or not something is perceived to be audible and whether, if so, that perception is reliable as a measure of reality.
Some sort of "calibration" is needed before a measurement becomes meaningful.
It apparently was to gpauk.
Science isn't decided by debate. The 'issue' should be open to scientific inquiry and research. Debate is not required or productive.
EDIT: Once again I am going to be sit back for awhile and see how things unfold.
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The debate pertained to what exactly was the question you were asking. My answer was clear.
Again? You have yet to supply any the "numerous" errant assumptions you claimed I had made last time you went...
Isn't that something that happens in the brains of "trained", self proclaimed "critical listeners"?
Maybe, but without any form of calibration I can only guess how results of his listening is going to be applicable to mine.
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