Since we are way off topic again 🙂 can you answer my question about the subject of capacitor break in you raised Dave :
No.
I could saw that i have heard it, but expect you will dismiss that. And in a circuit, caps are only part of the circuit. What else breaks-in?
dave
You are wasting your time. Just start listening to lp's.
Exactly! You've just built a new phono stage. Wouldn't you WANT to listen to it.😕
jeff
Capacitors are mechanical devices, they break-in.
dave
They move? What exactly changes by how much and how long does it take? Wheres the data?
Does NASA, LIGO, etc break in capacitors? Dont think so. Audiophoolishness.
Does NASA...
They will certainly break-in all the electronics, just to make sure they do not break, and that it still performs to spec after use. Hard to replace once you shoot it into the sky.
dave
They move? What exactly changes by how much and how long does it take? Wheres the data?
Does NASA, LIGO, etc break in capacitors? Dont think so. Audiophoolishness.
Sadly, some of the masses believe things that aren't really there.
It's a "mental" thing, ya know.
Now, I have to go and lock my toilet paper up in the vault........
Thats not break in, thats break it now if its got a defect, not when we need it. Thats reliability 101 nothing to do with components breaking in. You know this so why do you deliberitly confuse the issue?
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Do electronics makers run there gear for 100 hours before they ship them? Does your TV or iphone, car or any other non audio electronics need to burn in before it works properly? No!
You know this so why do you deliberitly confuse the issue?
It's all part of the business plan, but you knew that didn't you? 😉
They will certainly break-in all the electronics, just to make sure they do not break, and that it still performs to spec after use. Hard to replace once you shoot it into the sky.
dave
"Burn In" is a test procedure to insure stability/reliability/suitability, nothing more.
It's used in many fields, not just electronics.
However, some individuals with nervous mental issues (OCD?) are prone to worry over things too much, and with internet communications, spread their beliefs to make others nuts as well.
Do electronics makers run there gear for 100 hours before they ship them? Does your TV or iphone, car or any other non audio electronics need to burn in before it works properly? No!
The speakers i do get at least 200 hrs of low level break-in and get measured at least 3 times (for pr matching).
In commercial electronics the longest i have seen for electronics is 72 hrs.
dave
His analogy doesn't relate to present day DAC technology at all. It lacks the supporting evidence of his audibility claims and subjective listening impressions don't count as evidence.
Could you please read which of Mark's analogies I referred to?
Not all children wear their shoes out (something to do with walking)😉😀 Re children's shoes, they get worn out, are not designed to last, and children grow out of them. They can't be passed on to smaller children and so have to be thrown away. Not at all like DACs......but.......nice try 🙄
True. Something else, shoes mould to feet (so no good for other kids) perhaps something similar happens with DACs, but in reverse?
Car - yes!Does your TV or iphone, car or any other non audio electronics need to burn in before it works properly? No!
If I believed in phono burn-in, I'd write a CD with Audacity. It would contain pink noise, plus RIAA pre-emphasis (they probably more or less cancel, which is sufficient for our purpose). Then insert a 100:1 divider before the phono input, set the CD player to repeat and done. Guess why I haven't done it so far? Because my phono preamp is 25 years old.
True. Something else, shoes mould to feet (so no good for other kids) perhaps something similar happens with DACs, but in reverse?
I've definitely moulded to my dac, probably due to having created it🙂
...Life is just so much easier if you don't place yourself in the firing line... and it can get VERY vicious very quickly!!!
Yes, I think so too. Not going to worry about it though. Prefer to make a dac I want for myself. For now, it has an AK4499 in it 🙂
You will be surprised how many (it not all) designer I know will privately agree that standard "static" measurements have little refection on sound quality (try as they might to measure and "quantify" sound quality) - but just as in so many walks of life are too afraid to have there voices counted... Life is just so much easier if you don't place yourself in the firing line... and it can get VERY vicious very quickly!!!
The 1980s called and want their discussion on measurements back!
Seriously, it's 2020, we can discover exoplanets and measure gravitational waves. Are we really still recycling 40 year old audio discussions with zero forwards progress in the meantime?
I do hope that some designers have found correlations and are keeping them secret rather than what appears to the outside world. Otherwise it's a sad state of affairs.
And just for clarity I have no issue with people preferring their XYZ despite what the measurements say. Personal choice is exactly that. I get peeved with a few on here who keep telling me my system isn't good enough which is why I don't realise I need an XYZ. And I think the word 'better' should be banned from this forum as its meaningless as soon as ears are involved. Otherwise it's entertainment and people have the right to be entertained in any way they want.
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