A typical " I can't answer your question, so I'll just belittle the questioner response"
Let me repeat Chris's question.
"So if distortion and DNR aren't important, then why do you think this part is better than AK4499? Is there anything you actually measure?"
Can you explain why you consider this question so unreasonable?
Guys, please! This is same stuff people argue about incessantly here. We have all heard the arguments before, no need to repeat them again and again. Nobody is going to change their mind from arguing. Probably cause backfire-effect if anything.
Last edited:
If you look at his post in which he described the experience:
He could be right or wrong, but it should explain sufficiently why he thinks the way he does..... 🙂
Sorry Mark, but this needs to be discussed, and will continue to be discussed, until sufficient evidence is provided to support claims being made. That is the nature of science. While some may not consider this to be a scientific forum, there can be no doubt that audio engineering is.
Another classic response! Argue that the question has already been answered when it hasn't, and thereby avoid having to provide (another) answer.
Its a simple question, so why not provide a simple answer?
Sorry I didn't realise the question was directed at me.
No one said they did. In fact no one provided any evidence of any measurements at all! Yet we're still expected to believe the claims.
Disagree. Reproduction of music is ultimately for human enjoyment, not to satisfy AP analyzers. IMHO the best designers use both measurement and listening to evaluate design performance (including those that use their own ABX systems). Of course, we all know that some designers believe that only measurement matters. Up to each designer how they want to work.
For example, at Benchmark Media where DAC-3 and AHB2 were designed they have their own ABX room. Yet their designs are recognized as SOA in terms of measurements, at least at the time a product is introduced.
Another example, Pass HPA-1 is rated by Stereophile as superbly engineered and measuring superbly. It was designed mostly by ear, with a bit of AP use at the end.
I don't care how designers want to work if their products are good.
Last edited:
In a perfect world, it would be up to the consumer & free market to discard brutally those developers. Who did not listen to their audio products
I'm sorry Naaling, but JohnW described the way he got his impression about the sonic qualities of the new approach and he wrote a conditional "if the ....is as good as the FPGA...."; doesn't that clearly state (although implicitely) that he can't have measured anything?
The information doesn't address this part of the question
"So if distortion and DNR aren't important, then why do you think this part is better than AK4499"
"just sounds better" doesn't really cut it, does it?
From JohnW it is highly credible since he has designed a plethora of very good to great dacs.
Coming from you would be very different, since I don't know if you can successfully incorporate listening into your design process or not.
You know, we can argue till the cows come home and nothing will change.
You know nobody will change their mind, right?
This all started from a false statement, that an akm4499 vs a system of 4191 + 4498 measures the same.
And should stop there. Nobody did (here) a comprehensive set of tests, gaining (with hard work) the rights to speak up
And should stop there. Nobody did (here) a comprehensive set of tests, gaining (with hard work) the rights to speak up
This approach is simplifying, vulgarizing the possible assesment of a complex system. You do not have the slightest idea, what are the real parameters of the system under test. What are the measurable differences. Did not do a comprehensive analysis.
John instead can say that he listened to both (because he did) and he liked one of them better. All he needs to do that is listening..
From the information provided here, I have no idea if JohnW can either!
His evasive respose simply serves to compound that situation.
That is exactly the problem!! Nothing presented so far has shed any light on this issue. That's why questions are being asked.
Are you trying to convince me that the results of uncontrolled, sighted listening tests must be accepted without question?
Nobody is doing that. Maybe take it as one data point of human listening preference, or maybe not. Up to you. Nobody thinks John is the equivalent of an AP.
You don't have to insist that John's listening report is useless either. Some of us find it of interest and want to know what he thought.
Last edited:
Maybe I'm in the wrong place?
Is this a place for honest intellectual debate or just an mutual appreciation society?