I don't know what kind of music you listen to, but I almost never see significant content above 15k when I look at pop/rock music.
Starting with sampling of single shot/real time event [instead of assuming CW signals], and the resolution desired will then derive the BW and filter needed et al.
THx-RNMarsh
You could test this stuff if you wanted by getting a chain of evaluation boards for LTC2387-18. You can get the ADA4899 input EVB for it and sample at 15 MSPS and post-process it all on a PC.
Maybe I should make a 15 MHz ADC with it and sell it 😉. Surely 15 MHz decimated to 768 kHz will be music to the ears of those fixated on sample rate.
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@Chris - so what is it that makes these atonal, transient noise makers so prominent? Is it physiological (trig snapped behind me - something's after me!) and why is it so hard to reproduce (compression?) when heard in an ordinary recording (Chicago ~ I'm a Man)?
Another invalid test. Way too many unneded A/D and D/A conversions.
In my opinion, inserting re-badged consumer grade Pioneer CD recorder in the signal chain is just plain stupid, it proves nothing. What a waste of time..
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Electroj, you may not like the outcome of this test, but I think it is rather well done and in line with what other investigations found.
Your criticism is totally unconvincing. There is exactly the 1 A/D/A conversion you would need for this test, nothing more, and that is what they did. The quality of the CD player is not really relavant. If there were an audible difference between higher and 44.1 kHz sampling rate, it would still come out, regardless of the source, provided that source can do a real SACD sampling rate.
Your criticism is totally unconvincing. There is exactly the 1 A/D/A conversion you would need for this test, nothing more, and that is what they did. The quality of the CD player is not really relavant. If there were an audible difference between higher and 44.1 kHz sampling rate, it would still come out, regardless of the source, provided that source can do a real SACD sampling rate.
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Actually, I don't give a rat's potato about the outcome of that test, I'm just pointing to its flaws.
If someone wants to conduct a proper comparision, he/she has to find a way to introduce only one variable at a time.
Want to compare Hi-Res to 16/44? Find a way to play them back using the same hardware - same D/A chip, same oversampling filter (if any), same clock, same analog part etc. Everything else is just a hand-waving.
There are ways to do it. The drum files I posted in the old thread, which, I think, only Hans downloaded and listened to, was one such example.
And from a musical "accuracy" perspective it's very important to get all those mini transients exactly right 😉 Am I missing something here, seriously, what if the hits had been off by a millimetre, surely there are more important aspects to music reproduction?
Pls do it. Would be great. I'll buy the first one. 😉
No fixation. No breaking any laws (Nyquest). Just what is really required for music signals/ non-repetitive, non- CW signals.
THx-RNMarsh
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I'll probably never get the time to do it, but we'll see. I have a board using it at work but the design is not my personal property and might be prohibitively expensive since it's full of unrelated components, has a custom stack-up, controlled impedance, and uses micro/blind/buried vias.
Would it be true to say that the issue of "envelope modulation" had not previously entered the minds of any of the audio gurus frequenting this thread?
No one mentioned it before. Not even Scott W.
Not in relation to CD's. 16/44. It's a JN original.
You read it first right here. 🙂
-Richard
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No evidence it's actually an issue. It's just a theoretical page waster at the moment.
That's true 🙂 but.....judging from how elusive info is generally on the development of CD I wouldn't presume no one had thought of it before. I can easily imagine it was considered by someone somewhere, probably discussed and then dismissed as irrelevant 😉
We have the same line of thinking, just one variable.
And even then one has to be careful because some components in the chain might not like the HF content and render this into audible IM.
But my impression is that people on this thread who are really enjoying their music are less interested in Hi-Res, whereas ready made examples such as the one you provided are not auditioned by those who defend the higher bitrates.
Not meant as an accusation, just a funny perception from my side.
Hans
Couldn't agree more, apart from the fact that envelope modulation has been known at least as long as digital audio exists 😀 😀
A complete page waster.
Hans
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Here is a list of Gurus who did, going back into the late sixties, even before the CD was introduced.
Hans
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While the test might show how very good the theorem works, it fails in mimicking a CD player as the A/D/A loop has the convenience of being driven by one and the same clock ("For the CD loop we used a well-regarded professional CD recorder with real-time monitoring.").
Separating the recording and playback clock domains is on if the challenges with distributed PCM stored music.
//
A big maybe. maybe yes and maybe no.
If it does not belong there, it needs to be removed.
THx-RNMarsh
So far it maybe effects mini transients of a cymbal etc strike? Where do you chose to place the microphone to capture those accurately?