Explain that to me, I don't want to miss a moment of good fun.
And above all, do not question yourself: I was thinking of you, among others and precisely, in writing this.
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Well, if you can make your alleged contradiction actually make sense.... Because it doesn't right now.
But I agree with Bill...
But I agree with Bill...
Try not to substitute numerology for complete scientific objectiveness. An FFT does not show everything, although if that's all you have to show very low level circuit behavior then that's all there is. As Kahneman pointed out, WYSIATI is a ubiquitous characteristic of human thinking.
@Tournesol,
following the old line of reasoning, there is no contradiction as in the case of vinyl there is plenty of reason for audible differences while in the case of DACs (especially the modern ones) there is not.
The old black box approach (as long as it is approximately a LTI system inside) it doesn't matter what kind of a system it is.
Although already questionable back in the old days (because of the assumption that the usual measurements reveal everything one nieeds to know), given the accepted (obviously) results that modern opamps could be audibly better than the older ones, and the various (although often neglected) results from controlled listening tests, I asked about the new line of reasoning but up to now got no answer.
following the old line of reasoning, there is no contradiction as in the case of vinyl there is plenty of reason for audible differences while in the case of DACs (especially the modern ones) there is not.
The old black box approach (as long as it is approximately a LTI system inside) it doesn't matter what kind of a system it is.
Although already questionable back in the old days (because of the assumption that the usual measurements reveal everything one nieeds to know), given the accepted (obviously) results that modern opamps could be audibly better than the older ones, and the various (although often neglected) results from controlled listening tests, I asked about the new line of reasoning but up to now got no answer.
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Indeed. I'm very surprised to see some of the "objectivists" of the forum showing such an interest to Vinyls.
Would their faith in the cold objectivity of the measurements numbers suddenly be subjected to the same criteria than their audiophile enemies ?
A bit more information would be needed on the used levels and filter BW.
I can only find a 3150Hz tone at -20dB on the Adjust+ LP.
Are you sure you are not comparing apples to oranges ?
Hans
Edit: I also completely miss the Riaa shape in your LP noise recording, can you explain why ?
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Well, absolutely no idea how that relates to Bill's comment on fettling, or my comments.
You keep forgetting that reactions are conditional. You don't like the reactions you get, change your action. You don't like the reactions someone else gets, maybe you can help out changing his/her action.
My position is simple.
When ALL the measurements (Distortion, linearity, signal noise ratio) show a huge difference, and if we talk about fidelity, mass is said.
When there is no obvious differences in measurements between two gears, and some pretend to listen to a difference, i have immediately two hypothesis at the same level:
A- He listen to differences that do not exists.
B- There are differences that we don't measure (often the case).
For the point A, i will simply listen to, if I can, to see if I can confirm or not any audible difference for myself. I will not prejudge the fact that my interlocutor has indeed heard something, or is deluding himself. By what right ?
For point B, I will try to imagine how to measure the factor at work.
If it is a matter of pleasure, there is nothing to discuss: I do not meddle in the sexuality of my contemporaries.
What is funny (or not ;-( ), it is that I often have the feeling to have been classified in a drawer on which some believers stuck the label "Subjectivist", whereas I clearly defend a very French position of Laicity which includes everyone's right to believe in what he want.
Now, I understand perfectly that someone can take pleasure in restoring vintage cars. To spend hours trying to improve its performance, much less, it goes against the goal.
And then, spending hours comparing the advantages of different stylus profiles when it is already so difficult to find any spare one on the aftermarket !!!
Flails VS Maces ;-)
Much interesting than certain contributors arfing around.
Attachments
Isn't it more useful to describe differences heard rather than just their presence?
It doesn't. But it's like trying to explain the joy of sidedraft webers on full chat to someone who frets gas mileage.
@TT: You seem to have missed the point again. None of the vinyl listening objectivists are claiming any sonic superiority for vinyl. There are some poor souls who do claim it sounds better, but they are harmless.
What is interesting is that you do things backwards: It is your dog who wears the coat and you who barks.
Billshurv: You seem to have missed the point by condemning again here those who do not have the same 'preferences' as you to hell.
Seriously, when will you become aware this is an *anti* objective attitude? Preferences are not to be discussed.
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Sorry you are full of it this evening. I am on record here on many occasions saying I will not bat an eyelid over someone claiming a preference. When someone says 'sounds better' then they need to back that up. Which is what I said.
I know English is not your first language, and possibly not even your second but I am sure you understand 'prefer' vs 'better'.
As Bill mentions, none of the Vinyl lovers gives a damn about your objections against vinyl, so stop trying to convince us that this medium is no good.
And when, despite all this, you try to show us how inferior Vinyl is, you come with a faked image.
Either you don’t know what you are doing, or you try to mislead us deliberately.
I suspect it is the first.
Hans
Could be tricky, IIRC Jakob said when someone says better they are merely expressing their preference. The point is that is obviously the case, but to me isn't necessarily what better actually means, it can be viewed as a subjective or objective descriptor, so isn't helpful, some actual description of the sound would be "better" 😉
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