The-Loudspeaker
Scroll down to the lower portion of the intro text where it starts with "The sound?"
Yes, exactly. Dynamics approach realistic performance. I had heard compressed sound for so long, i thought maybe it was the CD/recording somehow. No. CD sounded a lot less compressed on recordings. It had been the speakers all along.
So many people do not attempt to make their systems sound realistic to a very high degree. Maybe thinking it is not possible. Sell your pet and buy the M2.
Add 5000W/channel and stand back! These things are on a whole different level than the rest.
THx-RNMarsh
Richard,
The M2s do have a sound. I know what it is now having spent some time with them. The bass sounds ported, which it is of course. More efficient at LF, yes, but less tight in the time domain than a sealed design of similar quality. The horns have some frequency response fluctuations which the JBL designed amplifier DSP was designed to correct.
Please don't get me wrong, they are excellent speakers. However, could even be great/superb with the right 4-channel dac, the right DSP, and some good linear mode power amps. It would not be trivial to do though, a bit of a project.
Doubtful a minidsp would be up to the task.
All the foregoing IMHO, of course.
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That could possibly work too, but probably not DAC-3 (no way to keep all the ASRCs exactly in phase. I am told it is an audible effect).
Nice to keep all the dac channels on the same clock if possible. Without trying a lot of dacs to see what works in practice, I would probably go for a 4 or more channel unit.
The speakers are good enough to reveal the shortcomings of most dacs (assuming everything else in the system is good enough).
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Is there much evidence that speakers compress the dynamic range? Does too small a room also effectively cause compression?
Sorry, no not at all.
Helping is great when people are asking for help.
I probably missed those heating effects.
Hans
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At the levels Mark listens to no. At the levels Richard listens to maybe. At the levels Ed works at 3+dB can be measured.
To a first order 3rd harmonic distortion is related to soft compression and suppression of the fundamental. All drivers have limited excursion at some point, but I don't see the fascination with high SPL listening.
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High SPL on a system set up for high SPL is where you get the realistic dynamics.
My last system could do (with a good recording) 105db @ LP (9’) which to me is right at the threshold of live reproduction. the new system I’m putting together will (should) cleanly do 5db more......looking for more headroom not really more SPL.
I find if one can make it sound clean at these levels it pays off when listening at regular levels (for me it’s about 92db +/- @ LP)
My last system could do (with a good recording) 105db @ LP (9’) which to me is right at the threshold of live reproduction. the new system I’m putting together will (should) cleanly do 5db more......looking for more headroom not really more SPL.
I find if one can make it sound clean at these levels it pays off when listening at regular levels (for me it’s about 92db +/- @ LP)
Can be two other things for preamp levels. First, the output impedance too high, so the capacitance of the cable create a low pass filter.
Second, with no oscillation, just a little overshoot.
For speakers cables, two things to consider. First, if the impedance curve of the speakers are not flat (what i dislike) the serial impedance of the cable affects the response curve. And, like in the previous, their capacitance. Oversooth can add micro dynamic. (Compensate a lazyness of a system or too much)
It is not day and night, but explain why cables can sound different. It is not some magical effects of the cables, and the one you could prefer on one system can be different from an other one.
On my side, I definitivally prefer cheap CAT6 cables for signal level with the ground connected by a pair of wires inside, and the global shield connected at the source and not its end (no current inside the shield).
It is the max SPL that your system can hanle and the temperature effects on the moving coils that increase their impedance. High efficiency systems offer more dynamic.
Little rooms request less power: more dynamic.
Jut my point of view, of course.
Well, it is just question to get the drums and pianos playing at their natural levels. The goal is not to annoy your neighbours.
Insant dynamic, not global hyper high level ;-)
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You absolutely qualify as an "audio professional", no questions about. The story about the superior sound of the 7805 regulator, over a modern LDO consolidates your reputation.
bonsai,
No problem with your intentions. However, I have since tried cables with other equipment including Benchmark DAC-3 and AHB2 amp. Not just the XLR cables, but RCA cables and speaker cables. The cables have audible effect, some low level linear distortion sounds like. Helps to have very low distortion audio equipment, be a skilled listener, and then listen carefully doing some A/B back and forth with cables. I never tried before because I assumed it couldn't matter. Doubt it would be noticeable with cell phone audio, or typical computer audio. Most likely there is some problem with your equipment, or you don't know how to listen. Happy to try and help you though
I meant to say 'hearing' effects - apologies.
If you are getting differences in sound due to cables there's a reason. A good amp will tolerate a wide range of loads with no audible difference.
As for input cables, you need to have a testable hypothesis. You have to have some extraordinary things going on to cause a clearly audible change by swapping an input cable out - assuming all the cables involved are decent and you are not dealing with nut-job stuff that is causing a problem in the first place.
But, having had this discussion with people I know I would not convince you. Its just the way it is. I've listened to enough high end gear to know what to expect and what sounds right and doesn't. And I've heard enough claims about cables that were patently false. I always have to shut my mouth and just accept it - not here of course!
Separately, cables are big money and that's why 'audio professionals' are shocked when you try to call them out on this stuff.
Where I am, folks will complain about spending a few grand on some decent electronics, but will quite happily spend hundreds of £'s on cables. Nuts.
Dynamic compression is very common above 90 dB SPL in traditional dynamic speakers. Voice coils get extremely hot and resistance rises. Also linear cone excursion can be quite limited. Soundstage won’t even test speakers above 95 dB SPL as most will fall apart. Even if it doesn’t blow apart you mostly get only distortion above 95 dbSPL. Many speakers distort significantly below that level.
You are best to go for pro designs like ATC with 3 or 4 inch diameter voice coils in a very tight tolerance massive motor assembly. Large ATC can play continuously at 121 dB SPL with less than 0.3% THD - this is loud enough for totally realistic drum transients etc. - unfortunately this level of performance is expensive and often only justified in professional studios like this
STUDIO C | blackbirdstudio
You are best to go for pro designs like ATC with 3 or 4 inch diameter voice coils in a very tight tolerance massive motor assembly. Large ATC can play continuously at 121 dB SPL with less than 0.3% THD - this is loud enough for totally realistic drum transients etc. - unfortunately this level of performance is expensive and often only justified in professional studios like this
STUDIO C | blackbirdstudio
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Speaker compression is a phenomenon well known to all rock guitarists who care about their tone. It's a thermal effect, no magic or snake oil involved.
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