After reading up on side mounted woofers, it seems the consensus is that they work fine if crossed over below 200 hz or even lower. My question is if it is preferable to have the side woofer mounted closer to the baffle, or if it doesn't matter.
I picked up 2 high quality 1" thick plywood cabinets from a thrift shop, for $40 each. The overall dimensions are 16" wide x 24.75" deep x 32" high. There is a 3" raised plinth on the bottom, so the inside dimensions are 14" x 22" x 27". The difference is accounted for by some round-over trim I will remove. These are rabbeted, and heavy duty. I will make a new baffle, and use them in an on-going project for a high efficiency speaker. I plan to brace them extensively.
Years ago I bought a bunch of TAD drivers, and have some gorgeous 1201h mid bass sitting on the shelf, NOS. I'd like to mount them high on a new front baffle, and find something to use on the side that can keep up with the TAD 100db/1w/1m. I have some DIYSG 15" Eminence "buyout" custom woofers, but their efficiency IIRC is about 88db. Dual side mounted woofers for force cancellation would be really fun, as long as price is reasonable. The TAD would be run from about 150-200hz up to 1000hz. Above that would be another box, yet to be determined. I have JBL horns I can mount quickly and give a listen.
These would be well out from the walls in a 23' x 22' x 9' room. Not ideal. Listening position about 10' from speakers.
Are there specific issue I have to avoid in this scenario? Thanks!
I picked up 2 high quality 1" thick plywood cabinets from a thrift shop, for $40 each. The overall dimensions are 16" wide x 24.75" deep x 32" high. There is a 3" raised plinth on the bottom, so the inside dimensions are 14" x 22" x 27". The difference is accounted for by some round-over trim I will remove. These are rabbeted, and heavy duty. I will make a new baffle, and use them in an on-going project for a high efficiency speaker. I plan to brace them extensively.
Years ago I bought a bunch of TAD drivers, and have some gorgeous 1201h mid bass sitting on the shelf, NOS. I'd like to mount them high on a new front baffle, and find something to use on the side that can keep up with the TAD 100db/1w/1m. I have some DIYSG 15" Eminence "buyout" custom woofers, but their efficiency IIRC is about 88db. Dual side mounted woofers for force cancellation would be really fun, as long as price is reasonable. The TAD would be run from about 150-200hz up to 1000hz. Above that would be another box, yet to be determined. I have JBL horns I can mount quickly and give a listen.
These would be well out from the walls in a 23' x 22' x 9' room. Not ideal. Listening position about 10' from speakers.
Are there specific issue I have to avoid in this scenario? Thanks!
No particular issue but 100dB (@ 8 ohms) in the bass isn't a small ask particularly deep in a cab that size. You'll probably want to use multiple drivers to get there, run in parallel (depending on if you have a low-impedance happy big SS amp). You might be able to get 100dB in-room to 35ish (-3 or -6dB). I'd mount the woofs at floor height and use force cancellation with one on either side. You don't have the dimensions to fit a manifold or I'd recommend trying for a push-pull manifold arrangement.
Side mounted 15"
Badman: Thank you for your reply and advice. The woofers I have are 89.5 db actual, so you are correct, that is a long way from 100 db of the midbass. I have the solid state amps, but if needed, would always buy more. There are some challenges with dual opposed in this particular set of cabinets, because the magnets would be nearly touching. I have to drag them out of their boxes and measure. I did consider the idea of laminating an additional layer of material on the sides, ala Wilson, and gain the extra separation between magnets. But even with that, I'm still quite a bit short of the 100db.
In your opinion, can I "afford" to waste some of that efficiency in the midbass? Or would it be more practical to simply buy a different set of woofers that are more efficient?
I bought these cabinets because I wanted a good test box, that can be quickly put into use. I want to begin learning measurement techniques, etc. On the other hand, I want something to listen to while in my workshop, and be able to improve on it as time goes by, and I learn more. By the way, the TAD drivers, NOS are worth more on teh market than any driver I'd replace them with. and I have a buyer anxious to buy them. I would prefer to keep one set
Badman: Thank you for your reply and advice. The woofers I have are 89.5 db actual, so you are correct, that is a long way from 100 db of the midbass. I have the solid state amps, but if needed, would always buy more. There are some challenges with dual opposed in this particular set of cabinets, because the magnets would be nearly touching. I have to drag them out of their boxes and measure. I did consider the idea of laminating an additional layer of material on the sides, ala Wilson, and gain the extra separation between magnets. But even with that, I'm still quite a bit short of the 100db.
In your opinion, can I "afford" to waste some of that efficiency in the midbass? Or would it be more practical to simply buy a different set of woofers that are more efficient?
I bought these cabinets because I wanted a good test box, that can be quickly put into use. I want to begin learning measurement techniques, etc. On the other hand, I want something to listen to while in my workshop, and be able to improve on it as time goes by, and I learn more. By the way, the TAD drivers, NOS are worth more on teh market than any driver I'd replace them with. and I have a buyer anxious to buy them. I would prefer to keep one set
Depends on the woofer (and probably the box). We have passively XOed Tysen V2 at 450 Hz — 2 Silver FLute W14 below Fostex FF85wk.
It works very well.
I would advise using 2 woofers (potentially a size smaller), in a push-push configuration. It dramatically reduces the vibrational load on the box, making construction easier and performance better. It also makes for better HF performance of side woofers,
136 litres gross (say 4.5 ft3 b\net). You will likely have issues finding woofer(s) that are efficient enuff and to do bass in such a small box. Biamping may be required — not a bad idea anyway, especially if you are XOing below 300 Hz.
dave
You can "waste" the mids. 100dB is insanely efficient in the deeper bass. I'd build as much woofer in as you can, then measure. You'll get some help from boundaries in the extreme deep bass. I'd still try to use as much woofer surface area as possible though.
It's always a tough thing to try to design a speaker into an existing cab, except for subs where you only have 1 driver to worry about. I recommend getting a DSP, there are a variety of options out there, but for speaker learning and design, nothing is more helpful. I personally use and can recommend the DBX Venu360 (it can be had used for ~$500), but there are options all the way from the Behringer pricepoints up to thousands (and the best of all is a custom PC based jobber). When you multiamp, efficiency ceases to be something you have to match, though there's an argument to be made for dynamic matching. Basically you can throw a woofer into any box "in the ballpark size range" and clean it up with DSP.
That's my STRONG recommendation for you- the flexibility not only allows for faster and better results, but also speeds up the learning process. Nice fast feedback loop instead of having to design and build a passive all day before even testing it.
Dave: Thank you for that suggestion. I had to laugh, because it seemed funny for someone to say that 4.5cf is a small box. I get what you are saying though. I like the idea of push-push, and I have LOTS of spare amp channels to play with, so no issue there.
Badman: I'm of the same opinion regarding the relative efficiency. In this case, I want something quick and dirty that I can play with. These boxes are decent size, and I have 15" woofers on the shelf, and mid-bass too. A simple 1-1.5cf box could be whipped up in a few hours, especially sealed, if there is any question about cutting up the cabinets to fit in that TAD mid-bass. The issue with that is height...you start getting up into the mid 40" range and you still don't have a horn, tweeter, etc. (Assuming you stack on on top of the other) Hence the whole idea of fitting the woofers and mid-bass in the same box, and pull the mid bass down as low as possible. That would further chew up space in the "small box" Dave refers to. The last couple days I've been looking at these boxes on my bench, and flipped them onto their backs, which drops the height down to the 24" range. If I can live with a 16" wide box 33" deep, it makes it really easy to build additional boxes on top of them, and eliminates any concern with height.
Another pair of those closeout woofers is only $300, so that is a pretty economical way to get 2 very powerful cabinets for a total investment of under $700. Then build on top. If it doesn't work the way I planned, throw the cabinets out. They were $80.
I should have stated one other goal for this box: I'm not looking for thundering bass. I'm happy with something down into the mid 30's. I have sub-woofers that can fill in if needed, but this is a workshop. It would be too much clutter.
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I've not seen a lot of Tysen builds come up, wondering why this approach is not more popular unless it’s the cost of needing 3 drivers?
