So can I, but I don't have a multifilter DAC, thus this could be a nice challenge for you.
Hans
Hans,
The filter question can't be taken in isolation IMHO. The 'slow' filters in ESS and AKM DACs all audibly cut into the top of the audio band. The apodizing filters only sound better than the default filter when the electronics around the DAC chip are compromised. I have seen convincing evidence of that enough times already IMHO, IME, etc. (this is where Mr.Harmonics likely jumps in to complain...)
One can measure the filters, but ultimately we are trying to satisfy human listener and one has to figure out how various design choices interact to give a good audible result for the listeners.
The filter question can't be taken in isolation IMHO. The 'slow' filters in ESS and AKM DACs all audibly cut into the top of the audio band. The apodizing filters only sound better than the default filter when the electronics around the DAC chip are compromised. I have seen convincing evidence of that enough times already IMHO, IME, etc. (this is where Mr.Harmonics likely jumps in to complain...)
One can measure the filters, but ultimately we are trying to satisfy human listener and one has to figure out how various design choices interact to give a good audible result for the listeners.
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Although 20 years old, this review fully supports my feeling that the quality of the digital filters is what influences sound most of all.
Modern DAC's, converting all incoming signals to 192Khz or even more, have made huge improvements in processing power, so everything is available to implement, number of taps and accuracy of the calculation.
Hans
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Its not too hard to sense to what extent that is true if one has a powerful enough PC. HQ Player has many filter choices that one can try. Some are of more 'quality' than others. The highest quality ones are surely valuable for the best dac, but if you try those same filters with different DAC chips, or with different electronics around the DAC chips, you will get clearly audible different sounding results.
Nice find. hadnt seen it.
End comment says -- the researchers have demonstrated theoritical improvements from working at higher sampling rates.
... will result in less distortion in the audible band, as erors are spread over twice the bandwidth and half of that bandwidth is above 20KHz. Measurements .... confirmed these concusions. (96KHz)
Thanks,
RNM
If you mean better/worse vs different, then usually its better/worse to my sense of hearing. Pretty close to the same opinions from the few skilled listeners around here. Jam has a somewhat different way of listening than I do, his is more suited to evaluating quality of reproduction for a satisfying long term human listening experience. Mine is more attuned to tracking down problems in dacs, and sometimes in other equipment. That means we listen for different things. Ultimately, an audio design should satisfy his way of listening, IMHO.
Pls read 33601, above.
I didnt form my listening thoughts on CD in an evening. Its always sounded as it does now IMO. Mostly due to limited BW, limited sample rate and a few lesser issues (filter effects, HF).
As I said before, the sound accuracy gets worse and worse as freq goes up. I gave others opinions, like the drummer, to show it is NOT just me. This is real effect of CD. and its always sounded like that no matter how much better PA and speaker gets.
THx-RNMarsh
Mark. where have you been, I covered this already, No, I mean accurate not like or better. I gave way to tell what is more accurate. with voice and with a cymbal in the room to compare etc etc. Real sounds vs audio gear. pls go back and read this forum, lately.
No one can argue about "likes". To each his/her own. For discussion here regarding accuracy to real sounds, I have to reject designing for flavors.
THx-RNMarsh
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A simple question on soundstage.
Think before answering. Really think.
If I delay one channel 20 uSec, what effect does that have on the soundstage. With speakers, not headphones..although the effect will almost be the same, headphones are closer to head in vice..so let's remove that issue.
Jn
Btw, moving the head to compensate is not the answer.
Oh, almost forgot...point sources, not line or planar.
Think before answering. Really think.
If I delay one channel 20 uSec, what effect does that have on the soundstage. With speakers, not headphones..although the effect will almost be the same, headphones are closer to head in vice..so let's remove that issue.
Jn
Btw, moving the head to compensate is not the answer.
Oh, almost forgot...point sources, not line or planar.
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yes, first sampling rate and then filters. I brought them up in that order also.
So now thinking of DSD or other now.
THx-RNMarsh
Not so sure. I have drum kit on other instruments right here. I can record them if I want. I also can make a more sonically accurate and enjoyable dac than DAC-3.
First of all, conversion to DSD512 changes everything that can happen in terms of sound quality (and it does involve upsampling, of course). Very long filters help a great deal, but take a very powerful computer. When have you even heard how a CD sounds after such processing (DSD512 with 20-million tap filter)?
To be fair, I do find there are still some very small issues with very tiny details at HF, but I can't prove they are not from an ADC. Can you?
In the meantime I continue experiments to see what the best I can do is. It takes time especially since I don't work long hours anymore. Short hours is more like it
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How do you mean, the better filter can make a worse DAC sound worse than with a worse filter?
Not sure what you are looking for BUT, similar affect can he had by moving one speaker back relative to the other. Making the distance slightly longer. In such case the image shifts away from center. And, becomes less focused or pin point. A larger blur instead of a spot image.
THx-RNMarsh
Unfortunately don't have access and can't afford such equipment, so would like to ask, what is your nice equipment telling with regards to the issues on GD and "ADC and DAC and some CD recorders"?
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