There's a certain truth about that but maybe some things need to be pointed out, too?
Between 20Hz & 20KHz:
- there is a difference in noise level -100dB Vs 110dB
- there is a difference in risetime 2.92uS Vs 0.342uS
I agree this is interesting & would love to investigate further whether either, both or something else is responsible for the sound differences heard.
Are these measurements relevant to audibility?
- Can the noise difference down @ 100dB make any audible difference to playback of music files with significantly higher noise floor?
- can risetime differences 0.342uS Vs 2.92uS be audible - I'm not sure if there is sufficient research in risetime - remember this isn't ITD (Interaural time differences) i.e between ears, although this risetime may well have a part to play in ITD.
These are the issues I'm most interested in (& I'm playing devil's advocate here to some extent)
PS.it also makes me wonder how much the 'story' behind reported audibility is of importance to the reception given to such differences i.e "If someone claims night and day differences with some random component rolling or having paid someone to empty the kitty litter into their DAC with no before or after measurements then they are fair game in the lounge IMO."
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If I came and did not hear would that be OK? I only say this because that has been my experience on several occasions. Not difference only here but preference also.
Absolutely okay. We all hear differently.
For my brother and myself, we struggle against a type of 'tone deafness,' in our case the ability to know if small pitch intervals are higher or lower than adjacent pitches. We can tell they are different though. Also, we find it gets a little easier with regular practice.
Wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who are convinced CD audio is far more than good enough happen to find it difficult to discern small changes in, say, distortion, or details. However, don't really know. You might be an interesting test subject, the first one not hearing much or any difference with our AK4499
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Go for it. It was suggested the differing transfer functions could be audible even through not very revealing systems. Some impressions could indicate this, the sibilance of vocals perhaps?
Before looking at the "how" (transfer function) does it not make sense to try understand the "what" - what is it in the analogue output that our auditory perception is discerning as different? So far, are there only two main differences between the output waveforms produced by these preamps or are there other, less significant - I've seen phase differences mentioned?
You might be an interesting test subject, the first one not hearing much or any difference with our AK4499
Not the only possible outcome, hearing a difference and preferring the other is also possible. I get from these discussions there is some kind of underlying vibe that once you hear something you have to have it. I rarely react to anything this way to anything especially audio related, meh why bother.
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Ok, nevermind thenCute but doesn't do anything to advance the discussion , as usual
Do we hear "rise-time" or "FR"? The are coupled so there is no question what the rise-time between 20-20khz (-3dB) is. Either the FR is high enough to sustain a certain rise-time or it isn't.
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Scott afraid? You clearly have not been paying attention. Or are just fishing for reaction.
Yes, agreedAt least we have questions and that's good
Yes, that's the point - we are told that frequencies above 20KHz (& lower for most of us) are inaudible when tested with sinewaves but in complex music-like signals is the risetime of the sound envelope audibly significant?
The elephant in the room is, of course, that the recordings used in this listening test are presumably limited to 20KHz FR & therefore how could a playback system with greater FR & faster risetime be of any significance when playing back such FR limited signals i.e signals with spread out attack part of the signal?
One other possibility from the existing measurements is that the noise level difference is what delivers the perception of better resolution/clarity to the lower noise floor preamp. How could this possibly be? I have some thoughts but may be considered OT unless there is an appetite to investigate what's behind the audible difference ?
My take is that the nature of the noise floor is critical to the perception of the wanted signal content, and this nature means a bunch of things.
Go right ahead and share your ideas I reckon.
Why would a 100kHz LP filter in front of a 1MHz BW preamp change the sound?
If you could tease out what you mean & the logic behind your question, I could perhaps hazard an answer but atm I really don't know why you are asking this?
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