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Indeed, it seems that mid priced stereo is going the way of the dodo being replaced by convenience and home theatre, leaving only the high-end at nosebleed prices. And being niche at the very high-end means this kind of ‘real stereo’ equipment is no longer relevant for 90% of those creating and mixing music for sale.
I think many people have written about the challenges of true stereo reproduction when your biggest issue is fighting the room. for most people it’s not a fight they are willing to take on and I suspect 90% of home stereo systems under perform because they’re positioned for convenience.
I think many people have written about the challenges of true stereo reproduction when your biggest issue is fighting the room. for most people it’s not a fight they are willing to take on and I suspect 90% of home stereo systems under perform because they’re positioned for convenience.
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using one good microphone, a live real timie source, good placement, and one good speaker (or speaker system) for playback, what's the best one might get? (clean response down to at least 30Hz would help in a lot of instances for room ambiance - is there room ambiance in mono?) One of the biggest sounds I've heard was playing with a cheap Behringer electronic crossover set for 80Hz, with a 15 watt per channel JC Penney solid state receiver with one channel driving a Karlson K15/Altec 15 re-tuned per Exemplar to ~30Hz, and a little weak Allied-Knight - Jensen 12CX in a Karlson K12 on ithe other amplifier channel playing well recorded theater organ CDs. That genre seemed to lack nothing and the mono presentation filled the room (made muy room disappear). The little Karlson by itself with that vintage 12CX would have the impact of a foam baseball bat lightly swung against a fluffy pillow - but had a pretty midrange - probably aided by small coil, spider and low moving mass. (K12 with the right speasker has a lot of impact in its range - like 80Hz - 210Hz)
much of early "stereo" commercial pop music would have say some instruments fully panned to the right channel, other's fully panned to the left, main vocalist center, and vocal chorus panned full left or right. That has its own charm. A late musican friend considered that the height of recording technique.
much of early "stereo" commercial pop music would have say some instruments fully panned to the right channel, other's fully panned to the left, main vocalist center, and vocal chorus panned full left or right. That has its own charm. A late musican friend considered that the height of recording technique.
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But reading this forum, one (not yet informed) would conclude that it's due to the lacking quality of DAC and amps.
Yes; but 'some' do. There is a sub-group of headphone users who use (obsess) some cross-channel mixing to reduce the absurd separation of headphones. They generally model the head transfer function which separates the two ears in speaker listening.
That's one view. Another is to remember why we hear "stereo", rather say we have directional hearing.
* Tiny tasty prey in the bush
* Tiger toe snapping a twig behind us
Rapid localization means the difference between getting dinner and being dinner.
Neither the prey or the tiger provides a bite-board in the optimum position so you can locate them. Your ear can do amazing calculations between aural space and physical space.
Localization also works in the intermediate zone of a reverberant space. (Why? There shouldn't be a tiger in your cave.) For-sure from Dc to 3*Dc. Dc is the point where direct and reverberant sound fields are about equal, and runs 3-4 feet in domestic rooms (11 feet in concert halls). Unless the room is "HARD", a tin gymnasium or a concrete bunker, most often 3*Dc runs about 90% of the way to the back wall, so "most" locations have some directionality despite reverberation. Unless speakers get beamy and you are off the beam.
I think a "stereo" with a too-small sweet-spot probably has objective flaws. Beamy or erratic directionality fer instance.
Which is why music playing in your room still sounds like music. And you can tell what instrument it is, and where it is coming from, despite reflections and 20dB peaks and dips.
The room colors every sound made in it. Someone talking, the sound of the Roomba running, someone walking across the floor, or sitting on the couch playing a guitar. The room doesn’t just single out your loudspeakers and pick on them. Your ear/brain eventually adjusts, and it sounds normal to you. You can then hear small differences in the way speakers sound compared to one another and to a real instrument, despite the fact that things are in no way flat.
Well said.
I find that a good 3D stereo image/soundstage is very important in a hifi. Not only as an end in itself, but given all the very small bits of information needed to provide one are also a measure of how well your hifi can reproduce the other small pieces of information that give life to voice & instrument.
dave
Stereo is a sound effect like any other effect.
Think about live music:
Solo singer/guitarist - point source.
Orchestra - would sound different whether you were seated in centre stalls, box at the side or up in the gods.
Pub rock band - close to stage receiving sound direct from the bands amps/speakers or further back from the house speakers.
Larger rock gig - sweet spot in centre of floor, side of room, rear picking up loads of echoes from back wall.
Any amplified music is coming from the speakers and not direct from the artist.
The above is a simplification and ignoring room 'ambiance'.
Think about live music:
Solo singer/guitarist - point source.
Orchestra - would sound different whether you were seated in centre stalls, box at the side or up in the gods.
Pub rock band - close to stage receiving sound direct from the bands amps/speakers or further back from the house speakers.
Larger rock gig - sweet spot in centre of floor, side of room, rear picking up loads of echoes from back wall.
Any amplified music is coming from the speakers and not direct from the artist.
The above is a simplification and ignoring room 'ambiance'.
Yes. I suspect that cross-channel mixing can be more effective at turning a 'speaker' recording into a rough approximation of a 'headphone' recording, than the other way round. This is because going from speakers to ears is to some extent an adding process, but going the other way means subtracting.PRR said:
Long gone are the days where the only choice we had was the TV or the stereo.
The internet gaming industry is bigger than the film and music industry combined and if statistics are to be believed, probably more watch porn than listen to recorded music seriously.
Internet Pornography by the Numbers; A Significant Threat to Society | Webroot
Hah! Some slight attempt at defending the Stereo?
I find that in some stereo mixes on a few setups, I can move around the room and have the perception that the "stereo image" is right in front of me, as long as I am facing the speakers, and still get the stereo effect.
Mono is easier to get right, but I tend to prefer stereo, it gives some impression of instrument and voice placement. Makes it more fun.
More than two channels = More chances to screw up!
Stereo is hard enough.
Never heard a surround system that really impressed me as much as a properly set up stereo.
Mono can be a just-for-fun "set & forget" type thing, but does not give the same "Immersion" IMO.
Everyone should try this, at some point in life
Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
Very nice sound painting, very enjoyable for casual background music listening. Basically it is mono, but whole front wall becomes a stereo painting attached to it. Almost whole room is the sweet spot and the stereo image holds even if you turn your head. Cheap to make with say three Vifa TC9 drivers, or if you have three individual speakers. Of course it is not hi-end hifi, but a shocking experience nevertheless and requires somewhat symmetric room side and front walls.
Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
Very nice sound painting, very enjoyable for casual background music listening. Basically it is mono, but whole front wall becomes a stereo painting attached to it. Almost whole room is the sweet spot and the stereo image holds even if you turn your head. Cheap to make with say three Vifa TC9 drivers, or if you have three individual speakers. Of course it is not hi-end hifi, but a shocking experience nevertheless
and requires somewhat symmetric room side and front walls.
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An interesting application of an old old processing concept to expand the stereo stage with ordinary two-speaker set-ups.
There are real problems from the word "stereo". So best to avoid the word unless the meaning is clear in context. I'll try.
We struggle mightily to produce a virtual sound image that supports the localization of sound objects. A worthy effort.
But in this thread, I am arguing that it is just one reason to make sophisticated audio systems. Maybe we should view localization as a minor feature albeit miraculously wonderful when DGG engineers bring an orchestra into our music room.
Now that may make some people wonder what are audio systems all about if not to produce localization? That's where the confusion in this thread comes in because we love the room-filling sound brought into our rooms when they play recordings made for two-speaker localization.
But when I work at my computer and couldn't care less about the virtual localization of Dawn Upshaw on the far wall I still get much pleasure from the great audio sound, sans localization.
Therefore, the single-box "stereo" that tmuikku posted might well be considered one great practical approach to bringing great audio into your music room.
Footnote: I used to say I was the last audiophile to move to two-speaker audio system - in 1965. I used to say, "I'd rather have the best one-speaker audio system I could afford* than a two-speaker system with inferior speakers".
I wonder if any of us might say that today?
B.
* an authentic (but modified) Karlson 15
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