Revisionist history. Another way not to persuade people with memories.
I only read the abstract, but, at the relevant time, I had just begun my undergraduate studies in agriculture, which is intimately tied to the condition of the planet and atmosphere, and potential global cooling was a concern for that field of human activity at that time.
The emerging field of genetic engineering was a new thing that would help ameliorate these kind of problems. I guess this is now called genetic modification.
I don't recall greenhouse gases or atmospheric warming being talked about at all other than in an historical context. It may have been, but I sure do not recall it. Considering the potential effect of increasing carbon dioxide and mildly increasing temperature to agriculture, I think if it was on the radar screen, I would recall it.
I bet those authors weren't even alive at the time. I suspect education is not as rigorous as it once was.
From the little I think I know, the theory on cloud formation is dictated mainly by solar activity and cosmic rays, is also a phenomenon that has been observed on other planets in the solar system (see quote below), my belief is that there is a rather small significance behind the man made climate change, but on the other hand I would be more worried about how vulnerable the life on earth actually is and, who knows, maybe a giant cosmic ray burst or something akin could blow of the atmosphere of the planet or cause other major havoc affecting severely the life on earth.
Even worse scenario is the ever refining and efficiency of our food producing technology to such an astronomical height that, such high-tech also becomes much more vulnerable in the event of a major extinction level scenario threatening life on earth, say like a giant asteroid is heading towards earth, I would think the fall would be enormous when our oh-so-wonderful tech fails and we suddenly have to rely on old traditional and much less efficient technologies as the only back up, as such, a population growth cap would be needed.
Therefore I tend to believe the climate change politics still fills a function for the greater good.
I happen to be one of those becoming increasingly worried about the ever growing population as if our planet has limitless resources, some of the extreme voices claim that we could fit the whole population of earth in Texas, but I believe not all land can be turned into arable land etc to feed and satisfy only humans needs, many for us humans "useless" areas on earth have an important role in the ecological system and therefore can't be turned into something directly useful for humans only.
Even worse scenario is the ever refining and efficiency of our food producing technology to such an astronomical height that, such high-tech also becomes much more vulnerable in the event of a major extinction level scenario threatening life on earth, say like a giant asteroid is heading towards earth, I would think the fall would be enormous when our oh-so-wonderful tech fails and we suddenly have to rely on old traditional and much less efficient technologies as the only back up, as such, a population growth cap would be needed.
Therefore I tend to believe the climate change politics still fills a function for the greater good.
Hmm, so you picked the graphs that don't show medieval period.
Can you quote me categorizing your post under conspiracy like I quoted your calling of my post "trolling"?
Agree, but the point was to put it in laymans terms. Trying to actually understand or model exactly what will result is a very complex issue, but I don't think it is unreasonable to say that if there are colder currents in a place that in the past there weren't that that is likely to have a localized effect.
Tony.
Very nice to watch this Soundhappy. In the early 80's I did my school work experience with the local Agronomist in Forbes (central western NSW). I think the first day we went out and took soil samples in some degraded areas that had major Salinity problems.
Hopefully the data these guys have gathered from their experiment can be used to convince others that their practices are counter productive and damaging, and that the things that they think will cause their farms problems do exactly the opposite.
Tony.
Hopefully the data these guys have gathered from their experiment can be used to convince others that their practices are counter productive and damaging, and that the things that they think will cause their farms problems do exactly the opposite.
Tony.
Over population is the root of concern. If the world had fewer persons, this thread would not exist. In response to my previous post you said:
My response: Simple yes, but a simple truth.
Au contraire mon frere.
My response: Simple yes, but a simple truth.
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It's work together with nature Occam's Grazer: An In-depth Introduction to Holistic Management
a very productive method 🙂 Kind regards
a very productive method 🙂 Kind regards
I tried to subtly hint that, given the general global trend of global warming, talking about a local decrease in temperature makes no sense.
Hmm, so you picked the graphs that don't show medieval period.
Can you quote me categorizing your post under conspiracy like I quoted your calling of my post "trolling"?
Yes I’ve seen the MWP graphs ‘doctored’ by the anti-AGW crowd to show it was warmer than the CWP. It was not (0.6 C average temp increase max, some estimates half that). The CWP is associated with CO2 increases and it has occurred very quickly. The MWP did not in either case.
I put up the correct graphs showing temperatures for the last 1000 years earlier this thread. Of course the reason you did not like them was they did not have the shape you preferred.
The global climate system, that is, the atmosphere, is a complex dynamical system. The latter, are systems composed of many identical parts which have many degrees of freedom, but together, they exert influence on each other, with the result of creating macroscopic patters and behaviours. Biological brains are also thought to be complex dynamical systems because of the very dense interconnections between neurons.
Complex dynamical systems are still little understood, but it is repeatedly observed, a slight change in one or some external variables, have profound effects on the entire system. This means, trapping more heat from the sun by increased carbon dioxide and methane, is actually pumping more energy into the atmospheric system, the oceans and land masses stimulating the climate to seek another state, which is now repeatly shown to be, an increased occurrence of severe and extreme weather.
Understanding climate change cannot be reduced to a black or while question, as complex dynamical systems are often very subtle to understand. What we know for sure, is temperatures are increasing, sea level is rising and food production is negatively impacted, and above all, people need food to survive.
"Complex dynamical systems" is a field of science with active research, as it is found, these systems range from biological brains, computer networks, the atmosphere, human development, ...
Complex dynamical systems are still little understood, but it is repeatedly observed, a slight change in one or some external variables, have profound effects on the entire system. This means, trapping more heat from the sun by increased carbon dioxide and methane, is actually pumping more energy into the atmospheric system, the oceans and land masses stimulating the climate to seek another state, which is now repeatly shown to be, an increased occurrence of severe and extreme weather.
Understanding climate change cannot be reduced to a black or while question, as complex dynamical systems are often very subtle to understand. What we know for sure, is temperatures are increasing, sea level is rising and food production is negatively impacted, and above all, people need food to survive.
"Complex dynamical systems" is a field of science with active research, as it is found, these systems range from biological brains, computer networks, the atmosphere, human development, ...
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I wouldn't call your style "dance, different tune" but if you insist... 😉
You were talking in this thread about acceptance of peer-reviewed publications and you should be aware that you haven't up to now provided such for your claims/assertions. Do you agree?
guess you didn't look at the global temperature chart since An Inconvenient Truth was released.
I looked at several, for example this one, but failed to see something special after 2006:
Temperature anomaly shown related to the baseline (average for 1950-1981), and in addition some differently calculated regression/trend lines, green for 1900 - 2018, red 1900 - 1950 and 1951 - 2018, orange for 2000 - 2018; data source: Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
Several others from different data sources did show the same; if you have other graphs please upload/link.
Anticipation.... 🙂
@ Scott. True enough. I never suggested that the change in name was not necessarily calculated. 😉
Tony.
Tony.
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In which way does that contradict the author's conclusion?
They reviewed the literature and found that there apparently wasn't a consensus in the scientific communitiy about cooling that would lead to a (near?) ice age.
As the paper is open access and the list of reviewed literature inluded, it is possible to check their findings and even to find out if they omitted relevant publications.
But generally, as they've written, some publications did include global cooling and therefore it is IMO no surprise that it was a concern for some people.
Isn't that the 'normal' for any scientific evolutionary process?
Peterson got his PhD in 1991, so I'd guess he was 🙂 , Connolley was born in 1964 .
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A related field is that of chaos theory. It says that a very small, minor change in one of the parts of a complex dynamic system may have very large consequences that throw the complete system out of kilter and make it come to a new stable point that is very different than where it started.
Chaos theory coined the phrase 'if a butterfly flaps its wings in China, you get a hurricane in USA'. Weather and climate systems show chaotic behaviour, which makes them very hard to predict towards a future situation.
In practice, its means that although those systems are fully deterministic, and obey cause and affect, they are impossible to predict with any accuracy.
Jan
But that is an oversimplification, as it is not ensured that fewer people would not been able to emit the same amount of greenhouse gases if not aware of the associated potential problems.
Unfortunately declining birth rate is related to economic development which is usually associated with higher emission of "everything".
Wrt current situation it follows that any devopment should be so that our previous misbehavior will not be repeated.
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