So here I am still daydreaming and looking at speakers on the shelf and performance graphs on line.
Looking at the Vifa M-11's or P-11's that I want to use and the factory recommended XO at 250Hz , then logging in to SpeakerBug and checking prices/cost on a 96uF capacitor
So after comparing costs and not swallowing my tongue in shock
$~100- for Crosscap or $~220- for standard Z-Caps using 2 47uF in parallel
would adding in a $5 bypass really [ I mean really] make that much difference?
Passive component cost at low frequencies is why I went active ages ago but these speakers will get gifted off after building.
Read a few threads on the question but still I don't think there was ever a definite conclusion and most of the old threads are now full of dead links as old gurus retire or die off
Looking at the Vifa M-11's or P-11's that I want to use and the factory recommended XO at 250Hz , then logging in to SpeakerBug and checking prices/cost on a 96uF capacitor
So after comparing costs and not swallowing my tongue in shock
$~100- for Crosscap or $~220- for standard Z-Caps using 2 47uF in parallel
would adding in a $5 bypass really [ I mean really] make that much difference?
Passive component cost at low frequencies is why I went active ages ago but these speakers will get gifted off after building.
Read a few threads on the question but still I don't think there was ever a definite conclusion and most of the old threads are now full of dead links as old gurus retire or die off
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Might depend upon what your $5 was made of.
And how.
Can you spare $5 ....
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My experience says yes.
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Picking Capacitors - Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh
And how.
Can you spare $5 ....
-------------------------------------
My experience says yes.
--------------------------------------
Picking Capacitors - Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh
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Cornell Dubilier 940C 0.01uF 500Vac
I can't see that spending an extra $5- would turn a $50 cap into a $100- cap tho, not when old leaden ears can't hear the difference between a $50 cap and a $2- cap some days
I can't see that spending an extra $5- would turn a $50 cap into a $100- cap tho, not when old leaden ears can't hear the difference between a $50 cap and a $2- cap some days
I thought enough times it had been discussed for the audiophiles to understand the deal with capacitors. I better think again.
Hence my post mentioning all those dead links and expired websites. No measurements and no data anymore. Just because I can't hear it doesn't mean it can't be measured.
Also I personally am no Audiophile, I just like music
It comes back to the science of analogue signals. Any component in the signal path will degrade the signal. Better quality components degrade the signal less than inexpensive ones.
The system will always be let down by the weakest link. Someone listening to music on an average system will not notice the difference between caps - they aren't the weakest link.
Bypass caps work by allowing a path for the signal outside of the poorer quality cap. The greater the difference in quality, the greater the perceived effect - dependent of course on whether your system can reveal such differences.
The system will always be let down by the weakest link. Someone listening to music on an average system will not notice the difference between caps - they aren't the weakest link.
Bypass caps work by allowing a path for the signal outside of the poorer quality cap. The greater the difference in quality, the greater the perceived effect - dependent of course on whether your system can reveal such differences.
That is very Joe Biden of you
Going by the weakest link theory, the damage would already done long before any of the audio data is in your home.. in the very studio they recorded it.
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Are these Vifa drivers even still around?
I am looking at the application note for the vifa M11MG-09-08. A 4" paper mid.
About 2-4L closed box.
Very similar to a SEAS MCA12RC really. MIDRANGES
Vifa are saying if you cross at 250Hz for 35W nominal, you need 96uF/4.3mH in an LC filter.
At a more realistic 500Hz, for 70W nominal, you need 36uF/3.3mH.
That's not far off what Troels Gravesen does here: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Of course, the mid falls away badly on dispersion above 3kHz, and doubtless breaks up around 8kHz, so he does it three way.
36uF shouldn't be too expensive in 250V polypropylene. I suppose you could make that value from two smaller ones.
I am looking at the application note for the vifa M11MG-09-08. A 4" paper mid.
About 2-4L closed box.
Very similar to a SEAS MCA12RC really. MIDRANGES
Vifa are saying if you cross at 250Hz for 35W nominal, you need 96uF/4.3mH in an LC filter.
At a more realistic 500Hz, for 70W nominal, you need 36uF/3.3mH.
That's not far off what Troels Gravesen does here: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Of course, the mid falls away badly on dispersion above 3kHz, and doubtless breaks up around 8kHz, so he does it three way.
36uF shouldn't be too expensive in 250V polypropylene. I suppose you could make that value from two smaller ones.
No. Not with quality MKPs like the CrossCap.
$100 for CrossCaps? Ouch. In the UK (despite the current chronic weakness of the Pound) 2 x 47uF CrossCaps are £23.16 inc. VAT, or about $41.50Au.
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I have several sets on the shelf, I got a great closeout deal a decade ago and slowly using them up. A couple of dB more efficient than the small SEAS I believe
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What is the equal power point? Never heard of it wrt crossover frequency...
Isn't the idea of box-mounted 3 ways that you let the bass do the work up to the bafflestep point, then the mid takes over. This is usually about 500Hz.
Passive 4 ohm speakers are a nuisance because they usually need bigger capacitors, and smaller coils. Which is expensive.
And crossing any mid low with a CL results in interference from the 120Hz Fs resonance impedance peak in the (then lumpy) frequency response.
I like this Wharfedale E70 idea:
Series wired mids with PA-type projection. And a higher impedance in the mid section, because low impedance is always troublesome in 3-ways. Gives the amp a nearer 8 ohm load, which helps cheaper amps.
I have used high-value Mundorf 70V electrolytics in impedance correction circuits. The theory is they might run hot due to an inherent resistance around 0.5-1 ohm. Always better with some series resistance to keep them linear, but really, they have been used in half the best speakers in the World in bass sections. And no-one complains. Like Celestion, who only used film types for the tweeter.
Isn't the idea of box-mounted 3 ways that you let the bass do the work up to the bafflestep point, then the mid takes over. This is usually about 500Hz.
Passive 4 ohm speakers are a nuisance because they usually need bigger capacitors, and smaller coils. Which is expensive.
And crossing any mid low with a CL results in interference from the 120Hz Fs resonance impedance peak in the (then lumpy) frequency response.
I like this Wharfedale E70 idea:
Series wired mids with PA-type projection. And a higher impedance in the mid section, because low impedance is always troublesome in 3-ways. Gives the amp a nearer 8 ohm load, which helps cheaper amps.
I have used high-value Mundorf 70V electrolytics in impedance correction circuits. The theory is they might run hot due to an inherent resistance around 0.5-1 ohm. Always better with some series resistance to keep them linear, but really, they have been used in half the best speakers in the World in bass sections. And no-one complains. Like Celestion, who only used film types for the tweeter.
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Agreed. It can be considerably cheaper purchasing from somewhere like Hificollective in the UK and paying shipping to Australia.
Equal power point? Simply that frequency where half the music power is above and half below. For a full symphony orchestra about 300 Hz and interestingly at the start of the telephone band width. If using passive it can cost tho but I have always thought that choosing a higher XO point was more related to production costs and maximising profit than purely from a sound quality reasons perspective.
If you are using a decent sized woofer; say 12" then with a baffle width of 450mm baffle step is close enough to 250Hz
If you are using a decent sized woofer; say 12" then with a baffle width of 450mm baffle step is close enough to 250Hz
Sorry for the confusion, that was $100 for a couple not the each price but it is still about $350- for the low 250 Hz XO in a pair of speakers if using Jantzen Cross caps.
Bonzer game of cricket going on right now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/47324907
The way your batter Steve Smith is getting whacked by Jofra Archer is almost bodyline! Separates the Men from the boys.
Not many people know this, but 1930's heroic bodyline Oz opener Bill Ponsford is a distant relly of mine. Always in the shadow of Don Bradman, but a gutsy guy, IMO. He got hit about 70 times in one innings, and never complained. Actually preferred baseball. I suspect his folks made the journey to South Australia a while back. YouTube
I must take you to task about equal power point. A nonsense consideration IMO. A big 12" woofer has far more power handling ability than a wee 4" mid. Thus the mid gets hotter above 300Hz.
Think about this though. Two series mids each operate at 1/4 power in a speaker. Yet add up to normal SPL. Thus stay cool. When I used my Chartwell PM400 3-ways for abusive and loud Disco use, it was always the mids that got hot and close to melting. By the end of the night, the plastic bextrene mids had gone a bit warm and soft. Is "Squidgy" the word?
The way your batter Steve Smith is getting whacked by Jofra Archer is almost bodyline! Separates the Men from the boys.
Not many people know this, but 1930's heroic bodyline Oz opener Bill Ponsford is a distant relly of mine. Always in the shadow of Don Bradman, but a gutsy guy, IMO. He got hit about 70 times in one innings, and never complained. Actually preferred baseball. I suspect his folks made the journey to South Australia a while back. YouTube
I must take you to task about equal power point. A nonsense consideration IMO. A big 12" woofer has far more power handling ability than a wee 4" mid. Thus the mid gets hotter above 300Hz.
Think about this though. Two series mids each operate at 1/4 power in a speaker. Yet add up to normal SPL. Thus stay cool. When I used my Chartwell PM400 3-ways for abusive and loud Disco use, it was always the mids that got hot and close to melting. By the end of the night, the plastic bextrene mids had gone a bit warm and soft. Is "Squidgy" the word?
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