In a generation, when all the doubters are dead, and the environmental changes will have become quite profound, it will be too late.
The Sunrise and Sunset have not changed, they would change drastically if the axis had shifted
Soylent Green is the answer. Whatever happened to zero population growth? Oh, that's right. Tax revenue growth.
not quite so easy
Hence the tautology, eh? Hmmnn... quality of the data sets, bias in reported numbers, lack of experimental controls... confounded variables in a complex system, lots of problems in this analysis. Ever design an experiment, propose an hypothesis, set criteria, carry it out, assess the quality of your work, and then defend your conclusions rigorously as if your lifeblood depended on it?
But why not? lets spend trillions of $$$$ trying to predict the future... (maybe invest in Wall Street with all this newfound insight gained from honest research, yes)? No agenda here... shout down anyone questioning the obvious truth...
I forsee Godwin's law on the horizen
Hence the tautology, eh? Hmmnn... quality of the data sets, bias in reported numbers, lack of experimental controls... confounded variables in a complex system, lots of problems in this analysis. Ever design an experiment, propose an hypothesis, set criteria, carry it out, assess the quality of your work, and then defend your conclusions rigorously as if your lifeblood depended on it?
But why not? lets spend trillions of $$$$ trying to predict the future... (maybe invest in Wall Street with all this newfound insight gained from honest research, yes)? No agenda here... shout down anyone questioning the obvious truth...
I forsee Godwin's law on the horizen
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There are more than one greenhouse gases. Do you know what those are and the amount they affect?
If you believe the doomsayers it's already too late.
Why all the doubters you suppose will be dead? They usually live in cold shytholes far from the riverfront ..... They will be very much alive and thriving , shooting on spot Californian trustafarians trespassing their properties. The revenge of rednecks and a glory days😀
Nobody knows because when you google it there is this UUGGGE number of stats proving that humanoids are responsible for all CO2 and greenhouse emissions . Further further down the google results is that Co2 is only 3.7% of greenhouse gasses and hillbillies are supposedly responsible for 1.8% of that max so 0.018 change is the driving factor. It does not sound so sexy so I understand hidden agenda and I actually am ready to believe that that 0.018 is enough to bake us in some undisclosed future.
P.S . I'm ready to switch my doubter, cold redneck riviera property for a Californian water front one immediately. Feeling generous tonight so straight swap will suffice , you won't have to pay on the top to get your saving ark. Time is running out , you've got 10-12 years max and it's exactly my estimate timeline to bring back the property to livable condition - First come , first serve
You mean Google has gone political too? It's spreading. 
It hasn't reached this search engine yet. DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.
It hasn't reached this search engine yet. DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.
In my country the number of the insects rise up. You can't live, there are too much.I fight with them every day. All types of insects, not just one. On land, in the air, on the water, all over. They comme over you in the house. Can you take all that insects in your countryes and escaping us from them ? 🙂)))))
I posted a link to ‘demographic transition’ earlier in this thread. World population growth is slowing markedly and will settle at c. 9 billion.
Human population is large and the drain in resources significant but that does not justify that some continue to pump out GHG’s or deny GW or try to trash the (difficult) science while being funded by the very companies responsible for most of the problem.
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just keeps on getting better
July Was the Hottest Month Ever Recorded on Earth | Live Science
even if only one of numerous GHG
Global carbon emissions hit record high in 2018: IEA - Reuters
Sea Level Rise | Smithsonian Ocean
Global warming: Antarctic glacier collapse may now be inevitable.
July Was the Hottest Month Ever Recorded on Earth | Live Science
even if only one of numerous GHG
Global carbon emissions hit record high in 2018: IEA - Reuters
Sea Level Rise | Smithsonian Ocean
Global warming: Antarctic glacier collapse may now be inevitable.
Before I go on and someone crucifies me for being a climate change denier Let me say a few years ago I made a conscious change my lifestyle to reduce my IMPACT on the globe. I have downsized everything in my life.
OK that said, being trained in measurement I see many holes in these types of data.
The ground temperature stations 100 years ago used to be in rural areas. Now these temperature stations are in carparks near AC units. Also how many times have the temperature sensors been replaced, and the new one will be more accurate than the older ones, what was the temperature sensor drift, were the sensors calibrated and what was the offset. These are just a couple of questions where no data is available.
Sensors now being in built up areas Urban Heat Island Effect has a significant impact.. The proponents tell us that they correct for UHIE but release NO uncertanties around the measurements. Infact the ONLY uncertanties I have seen are from the first IPCC report where the uncertanties were larger than the anomaly. It would be like specing an amplifier and said the power output was 30watts ±45watts
CO2 is not as we have been lead to believe the largest greenhouse gas in our atmosphere. Water vapor has this mantle. Anyone who lives in a climate where it rains a lot in winter will tell you on over cast nights morning temps will be higher around 5°C. When we get a few clear winter nights here morning temps will plummet to below 0°C.
CO2 is life cycle gas used by plants to grow and photosynthesize into Oxygen. In the UK tomato farmers CO2 inject greenhouses to 1200ppm to promote fruit growth.
To me Climate Change is a multi Billion $$$$ business and people have made substantial wealth off CC.
What we should be discussing as a human race is sustainable population. This is the root of most of the problems future generations face. The Earth has a finite capacity to feed its population, all life on Earth people and animals, the more people consume the less there is for the rest of life on this planet. I guess this is a moot point as it will never happen because it does not win votes.
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I don’t see how you can simply point to ‘population’ as the silver bullet.
Increasing energy demand is the issue. About 15% of us on the planet consume most of the energy produced and you can’t produce energy of any kind without some sort of carbon footprint impact - not even a wind turbine because you used energy to make it in the first instance.
Bottom line is our net carbon footptint has to go down.
Regards urban island heating - most temperature increases have been verified by satellite technology. On the ground sensors simply report localized temperatures and studies have shown in the big scheme of things this has had a marginal impact in the overall global increase in temperature.
Water vapor - climate change deniers keep dredging this up. It’s highly localized, it is of very short duration and has no effect trail ie once it dissipates, it’s gone as you point out with the daytime/nighttime clear sky temperature example. Not so carbon dioxide. As I pointed out yesterday, it takes 200 000 years plus to sequestrate excess atmospheric carbon back into the ground through weathering.
Climate change is a multi- billion $$$ business but not for the reasons you believe. Going green can and should mean jobs and new industries - vested oil and coal interests are fighting that tooth and nail because ultimately their profits will go elsewhere.
Of course all these numbers and observations are nonsense to some. Everything’s a ok - just carry on as normal.
Increasing energy demand is the issue. About 15% of us on the planet consume most of the energy produced and you can’t produce energy of any kind without some sort of carbon footprint impact - not even a wind turbine because you used energy to make it in the first instance.
Bottom line is our net carbon footptint has to go down.
Regards urban island heating - most temperature increases have been verified by satellite technology. On the ground sensors simply report localized temperatures and studies have shown in the big scheme of things this has had a marginal impact in the overall global increase in temperature.
Water vapor - climate change deniers keep dredging this up. It’s highly localized, it is of very short duration and has no effect trail ie once it dissipates, it’s gone as you point out with the daytime/nighttime clear sky temperature example. Not so carbon dioxide. As I pointed out yesterday, it takes 200 000 years plus to sequestrate excess atmospheric carbon back into the ground through weathering.
Climate change is a multi- billion $$$ business but not for the reasons you believe. Going green can and should mean jobs and new industries - vested oil and coal interests are fighting that tooth and nail because ultimately their profits will go elsewhere.
Of course all these numbers and observations are nonsense to some. Everything’s a ok - just carry on as normal.
I'm not sure what difference it makes but yes, I am aware of other gases that contribute to the greenhouse effect.
Bonsai, chrisb -- nice tires but ultimately you are feeding the trolls. A large part of this thread is typical nonsense, along with the usual one liner provokers etc... You've tried hard - time to let them fester!! 🙂
And anyway, like I said, it's all caused by a viral temerture rise in the space Turtle that moves the disk along...
And anyway, like I said, it's all caused by a viral temerture rise in the space Turtle that moves the disk along...
You are correct that 15% of us use 80-90% of the resources, But what happens when this 15% becomes 40% as the poorer nations become wealthier??
Our net carbon footprint will NEVER go down while there nearly 8 billion people on this planet consuming food, water and the privileged 15% new Iphones every year. All we can do is wait for the inevitable..
I am not a Climate Change denier I can measure the water vapour effect. There is NO scientific correlation between heating and CO2. The CO2 record from ice core sample data indicate the CO2 lagged global warming by around 700years.
The data from ground and satellite measurements do not correlate. Satellite data has the temperature trend from the lower tropospheric cooling. This was part of my study when I was trained in temperature measurement. Again the issue is what is being corrected for and these corrections can be made to fit any model.
Satellite versus Surface Estimates of Air Temperature since 1979
Just need Yellowstone to blow to jump start an ice age...
The warming feedback loop is well under way. Ice sheets are melting much faster than predicted. All the methane being released from previously frozen tundra will kick things into overdrive. Human practices did not change in time and developing countries will not halt progress to make up for the sins of the first world.
I hate being pessimistic but the industrial revolution has been a very destructive experiment on the human timeline. Sociopathic tendencies have no place in a technologically advanced species.
The warming feedback loop is well under way. Ice sheets are melting much faster than predicted. All the methane being released from previously frozen tundra will kick things into overdrive. Human practices did not change in time and developing countries will not halt progress to make up for the sins of the first world.
I hate being pessimistic but the industrial revolution has been a very destructive experiment on the human timeline. Sociopathic tendencies have no place in a technologically advanced species.
modeling and generalizations
A stream flows around and over a few boulders. Throw in a cork stopper. Now, modeling this input dependent nonlinear dynamical system, in a hundred feet, tell me the location and instantaneous velocity of the stopper. You can't. Of course you can't. Now model the multifold complexity of the planet over decades, and confidently tell me my new tax rate. (Here follows a descent into obscenity. +9
Strawman alert! Vast over generalizations do not further the discussion. Here's a quote from a well respected friend...
A stream flows around and over a few boulders. Throw in a cork stopper. Now, modeling this input dependent nonlinear dynamical system, in a hundred feet, tell me the location and instantaneous velocity of the stopper. You can't. Of course you can't. Now model the multifold complexity of the planet over decades, and confidently tell me my new tax rate. (Here follows a descent into obscenity. +9
The bold part in the first quote is what you are missing.
I haven't seen anyone (here) who denies that the climate changes. The argument is what causes it and what to do about it.
I hope you realize that the site you linked is Al Gore shill site and the content was written in 2007.
The argument is just as valid today as it was in 2007. The "lag" argument is fairly old and has been addressed and discussed for a long time now.
If you don't like the website, a very short google short will provide you with dozens. Try this one, it's recent, simple but provide tons of good links: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/i...nce-says-about-role-of-co2-in-climate-change/
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