NB my "trying". It's obviously the absolute value of I. Made in order to illustrate the evenness between in and out!? But you are of course correct in your observation.
The 99,5% linear is interesting - it seem to refer to the distance of movement of the cone vs. current. I'm not sure this correlate to 0,5% "thd" as you seem to indicate - does it necessarily?
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The 99,5% linear is interesting - it seem to refer to the distance of movement of the cone vs. current. I'm not sure this correlate to 0,5% "thd" as you seem to indicate - does it necessarily?
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...billshurv peaks. ScottW peaks.
Everyone peaks. Except when they don't, which is not most of the time.
As ScottW points out, its more of an issue when claims of physics violations are made and or when extreme exaggeration is involved.
But I don't claim any magical hearing ability or that my system is anything other than a source of entertainment. You have claimed to hear things a human should not be able to hear. Whilst peeking.
I don't want to start this loop up again, but you have claimed that twiddling around with stuff 150dB down is audible. I maintain that, once you hit the noise of the brownian motion of air molecules its beyond human hearing abilty.
No, I don't think so.
I have claimed that hearing things down around -120dBFS is possible (most practically, if you don't ever come close to playback at 0dBFS).
Regarding things at lower levels such as -140dBFS or -150dBFS, I can only remember numbers like that coming up during speculation about what the human limit of audibility might be using playback systems as they are commonly configured, which is often to mostly operate at peak levels well below 0dBFS.
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At normal THX levels of -20dBFS is 85dBA at listening position that's -15dBA I think there is only one anechoic chamber quieter than that. You listen at lower levels than that so no chance if that is really what is happening. But we have done this loop at least 4 times now...
Hi Richard,
I don't know where Stuart hangs out these days, and I haven't time for another web site in my life. All I know is that he is away from here, and he has excellent reasons for this whatever they are.
The other thing I know is that this place needs Stuart - badly.
-Chris
I don't know where Stuart hangs out these days, and I haven't time for another web site in my life. All I know is that he is away from here, and he has excellent reasons for this whatever they are.
The other thing I know is that this place needs Stuart - badly.
-Chris
I don't listen at 'normal THX levels' and neither do most people. That only happens in movie theaters and such places.
And if you recall, I adjusted HD at down around -120db, then listened for IMD using music (that would reveal IMD in harmonies) as the source. Not the same thing you are talking about at all
And if you recall, I adjusted HD at down around -120db, then listened for IMD using music (that would reveal IMD in harmonies) as the source. Not the same thing you are talking about at all
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Hello John,
Okay, you haven't tried it. That means that endorsing it to others is reckless and points to a really low bar for acceptance for any product on the grounds that "it might work, you can't say it can't work". This is harmful to your reputation and explains pretty well a number of claims you have made in the past.
I have a friend who behaves similarly to you on this aspect. He readily will believe claims and white papers for audio equipment, and cars. All of his friends (myself included) have banded together to protect him from being ripped off. He needs this.
John, you need friends like that too to keep yourself from being ripped off. Too bad you didn't have friends like this early in your career. But this also shows that you don't do things like this with malice or some calculating angle to prop yourself up. You're just a person honestly trying to help people, but easily swayed by claims many of us wouldtest before recommending the product or process.
Dan, send John some goop so he can at least try it out. Please.
-Chris
Okay, you haven't tried it. That means that endorsing it to others is reckless and points to a really low bar for acceptance for any product on the grounds that "it might work, you can't say it can't work". This is harmful to your reputation and explains pretty well a number of claims you have made in the past.
I have a friend who behaves similarly to you on this aspect. He readily will believe claims and white papers for audio equipment, and cars. All of his friends (myself included) have banded together to protect him from being ripped off. He needs this.
John, you need friends like that too to keep yourself from being ripped off. Too bad you didn't have friends like this early in your career. But this also shows that you don't do things like this with malice or some calculating angle to prop yourself up. You're just a person honestly trying to help people, but easily swayed by claims many of us wouldtest before recommending the product or process.
Dan, send John some goop so he can at least try it out. Please.
-Chris
I know but even if you did (setting the peak bar higher) AND masking did not exist in human hearing this is below anything that can credibly be heard. If there is a secondary effect that does pop up as audible that is worth exploring, but for now colour me unconvinced.
I think that audiophilia is a kind of mental illness and as such it should be considered, investigated and treated 😉.
I think they are both consistent. Here's what I know from experimentation, Sabre dacs have HD compensation for 2nd and 3rd harmonics. ESS claims THD of -120dB is possible, and I am able to show all harmonics below -120dBFS using 1kHz test tone.
Starting from there and using HD compensation registers, 2nd harmonic can be increased 3dB-4dB or any small number. Playing well recorded music at normal listening levels, I am able to hear a small increase in IMD during vocal harmonies. No question, its small, but it is audible to skilled listeners.
There is nothing remarkable about the result that I know of. No doubt it would make perfect sense if more measurements were conducted to measure the change in IMD using my same listening levels.
The result only seems significant in one way: People who claim that they hear distortion in a system with measured HD down around -120dB are not necessarily crazy.
From the perspective of overall system design I think its a problem in that we don't have way to gainstage our systems dynamically depending on how they are used at a particular time. In my case, the system only ever briefly gets turned up to anywhere near 0dBFS to impress guests. Otherwise, I prefer to listen at rather low levels.
It might be worth mentioning as an aside (and for billshurv) that hearing, IME is not entirely linear. Distortion of a music signal is not heard as separate signal -120dB (or other level) below whatever is being listened to. It is heard/perceived as an alteration integral to music being listen to, and I am not aware of any research showing evidence to the contrary. If there is some, I would be very interested to see it.
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