Anyone with a science/engineering background would expect some evidence. Not sure what a lawyer would take as 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
Zero evidence bar sighted evalution is just a nice story for the pile.
Zero evidence bar sighted evalution is just a nice story for the pile.
About the rings of Saturnus there were different theories. Theories are part of the scientific process.
The next step in the scientific process is to validate those theories, for example in the case of Saturnys by going there with a space craft. Unless verified (or falsified), theories are worth nothing.
Hence my utter disappointment when members here only throw theories around, have an excellent opportunity to verify, but don't. Like with the gooped Benchmark.
The next step in the scientific process is to validate those theories, for example in the case of Saturnys by going there with a space craft. Unless verified (or falsified), theories are worth nothing.
Hence my utter disappointment when members here only throw theories around, have an excellent opportunity to verify, but don't. Like with the gooped Benchmark.
What about people who can't, they also have nothing to "prove". Scientific relativism has been the stock and trade of audio for decades, nothing is going to change that. In audio the well designed experiments are always the show stopper, too much to lose.
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Understand how you might feel disappointed.
However, there was no expectation that anything so extreme and permanent had been done until the dac case was opened. Since I had not listened to the dac immediately before or after it was modded, prior to the visit when the case was opened my personal expectation was that there would be no audible difference between the dacs and that when the modded dac was opened, we would find typical and removable EMI/RFI mods that were not really needed. Hence, there was no plan to come loaded for bear.
Hindsight bias - Wikipedia
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Read the capacitor/op-amp rolling threads that is rarely if ever the claim, typical results are a least a page of highly exaggerated prose detailing large changes up and down the audio spectrum.
Mark, are you sure you had no expectation bias, or was it merely that you expected to have none? <UD
Perhaps oddly, sometimes it makes much more of a difference than it should. In some cases I have suspected RFI sensitivity of a circuit out on the bench might account for some of it. Some confirmation of that simply by dropping a circuit down inside an empty steel computer case laying on its side. The cases can be reasonably lossy at RF.
I did have expectation of no difference, as I said. We have the word expectation for such situations. However, less clear we have the term 'expectation bias' defined as a scientific term. I guess it could be considered as audio forum slang.
My point is, you may have thought you expected to hear no difference, but subconsciously you may actually have expected to hear a difference, let's face it, you are practiced in listening for very small differences.
Easy enough to measure, for example the LM4562 has been known to very readily receive signals from DECT phones in the 1900MHz region.
To be fair, even if it is evidence it often goes to the pot of silence, if the evidence is not to ones liking.
(I've mentioned our first set of listening tests with film capacitors in the past.)
Is there a convincing line of reasoning why it must be impossible to detect audible differences in certain applications, just because CERN did not publish about capacitor shootouts? 🙂
I would like to think I am not guily of that and apologise if I have been.
Just a feeble attempt at humour. As we all know, real men use wet slug tantalums for DC blocking.
Compared to the assertion that an audible difference can't exist, even the usual audio prosa seems to be quite reserved. 😉
(Otherwise I agree that often a bit less enthusiastic/dramatic reports would be better)
Understood, no data to show, the usual excuses. Just another story that goes to the pile of.
That of course would be a very stupid assertion to make, I can't say I recall ever reading that here.
Yes, they show FFT spurs in that case, and there happens to be a DECT phone base station here. In most cases, other than for LM4562 family parts, unplugging its power makes no audible or clear measurable difference.
However, clipping a scope ground lead to the tip as a makeshift antenna shows lots of RF activity down as low as 150MHz. Only one spot in the house shows attenuated RF, and that is directly in front of the middle of the dishwasher door in the kitchen. The direction blocked by it is off to the West, about 100mi of open space across the Sacramento Valley only blocked by the Coastal Mountains at the other side. At this location, I could probably use a walk-in Faraday cage for doing bench work. Lacking that, I have empty computer cases. Obviously, its a low budget operation.
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These capacitors never made it to the audio industry. Reason: there are capacitors "for audio" allowing an at least 10x markup, and the stories about capacitor sound would still hold.
@ billshurv,
No, just a general remark. It happens not only in case of (inconvenient) listening test results, but wrt evidence too.
I mentioned recently the .....err..um...a bit less than overwhelming appreciation for the evidence of the impact the various test protocols can have.
I thought so, but similar 'arguments' are posted quite often.....
@ syn08,
As the spin doctor nowadays insists that the FUD shouter is only jestering, I'll let it go.....
No, just a general remark. It happens not only in case of (inconvenient) listening test results, but wrt evidence too.
I mentioned recently the .....err..um...a bit less than overwhelming appreciation for the evidence of the impact the various test protocols can have.
I thought so, but similar 'arguments' are posted quite often.....
@ syn08,
As the spin doctor nowadays insists that the FUD shouter is only jestering, I'll let it go.....
Looking at the 5mF we were discussing on the other thread, the fact that they start at £50 and only go upwards from there certainly puts me off.
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