I'm afraid that looks way too big for my living room, considering that I'm going to have at least 7 other speaker cabinets for the main channel speakers. I was hoping for something like the size of this sub:
SVS PB-2000 Subwoofer | 12-inch Driver | 500 Watts RMS
21" x 17" x 25" - that I am sure I can fit in my living room.
I believe I read that article a while back, and while some of his terminology confused me at first (e.g., "difference tones"), I think his conclusions are correct. Acoustically, a resultant stop never actually creates the fundamental pitch. It does beat at the frequency we want out of the stop, however, and down really low, that sounds nearly as good to our ears.
That article scoffs at multi-pitch composite stops, but I have played some that work quite well. They replicate the harmonics of a 32' stop, but without actually producing the fundamental. An Austin pipe organ in my town has a five-rank 32' resultant "reed" stop which works quite well.
I don't think that will work in my case. The best spot in my room is in the corner to the right of the organ console. There is about 2x2x2 feet of space, but I'd prefer not to use all of it if I don't have to.
While I appreciate the helpful suggestions regarding horn-based speakers, I don't think their large size is going to work in my living room. I don't know much about tapped horns, but it seems one of their advantages is efficiency. I don't think I need enough power to make efficiency an important goal. In fact, I'm willing to sacrifice efficiency for size.
Since finding that SVS PB-2000 and similar products from them that seem like they would do the trick for my needs, I need to compare whatever I might be able to build vs. their products. Only if I can build something comparable for significantly less cost should I bother tackling this project. I already have a big project to build 7 main speakers.
Since finding that SVS PB-2000 and similar products from them that seem like they would do the trick for my needs, I need to compare whatever I might be able to build vs. their products. Only if I can build something comparable for significantly less cost should I bother tackling this project. I already have a big project to build 7 main speakers.
Objective measurements are needed. Simple to run a file through REW (honourware) and examine the Real Time Analyzer to see exactly what sine waves are present (and then to post the results).
B.
SVS PB2000 clone - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 in 85 liter vented box
An external port should be ok - or one part in and part out
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/5f/34/ba/74ab6e37e25b02/US20050123162A1.pdf
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 in 85 liter vented box
An external port should be ok - or one part in and part out
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/5f/34/ba/74ab6e37e25b02/US20050123162A1.pdf
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If you don't have a corner for some type of [folded] pipe horn, then doubtful considering it's a powered sub.
GM
While I appreciate the helpful suggestions regarding horn-based speakers, I don't think their large size is going to work in my living room. I don't know much about tapped horns, but it seems one of their advantages is efficiency. I don't think I need enough power to make efficiency an important goal. In fact, I'm willing to sacrifice efficiency for size.
Since finding that SVS PB-2000 and similar products from them that seem like they would do the trick for my needs, I need to compare whatever I might be able to build vs. their products. Only if I can build something comparable for significantly less cost should I bother tackling this project. I already have a big project to build 7 main speakers.
How about if you can build something for about the same price that sounds better, likely more reliable, gives better SPL, can run higher and cleaner eg to 80dB making designing and building your mains cheaper?
Dayton Audio 18" Ultimax Subwoofer and Cabinet Bundle
Behringer NX3000D 3000W with DSP
The cabinet being CNC might be an easy build for you, being closed it might sound better, the sim if its accurate shows good dB, SPL that dig low with Xmax not compromised and low delay.
The amp is stereo matching the driver's 2ohm dual voice coils and power needs. The amp has DSP which you will need. Best of all you can avoid all the reliability issues of commercial plate amps
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Absolutely! My late/great horn system was ~56" wide x ~48" deep x ~84" tall and nestled in corners with a ceiling height expanded knit grill of similar wall color, most folks assumed them to be just the way the builder had chosen to accent shape the room, till cranked up of course! .
Converted some builtin china corner cabs in one lady's dining room, so can always make some sort of faux decorative corner cabs to blend with the room decor.
GM
. Converted some builtin china corner cabs in one lady's dining room, so can always make some sort of faux decorative corner cabs to blend with the room decor.
GM
I like the amount of air that huge driver can move. I don't think I'd like that amp though; the review mentions loud fan noise, which would be a problem. I think I would want this kit instead:
Dayton Audio 18" Ultimax Subwoofer with SPA1200DSP Amplifier and Cabinet Package
Unfortunately, the price tag is pretty high, in the same range as the SVS sub I'm considering. The woofer is 18" instead of 13" though, and the amp is significantly more powerful, but I probably won't need that headroom. The Dayton amp has parametric EQ, which I'd have to use to correct the rolloff below 40 Hz.
BTW, I am in the middle of building a Parts Express Classix II kit, and while it's taking me a while to figure everything out, it's coming along very well so far. I wouldn't be afraid of building a subwoofer like this kit, but so far, it doesn't look like it would offer me enough vs. the SVS PB-2000.
Diysoundgroup lists their buyout 15 as "available" - if so then you could build a sturdy box with 120 liters for the driver, vent it to 16Hz with a Precision Port, find a decent 250 watt amp and be business. If the amp can peak at 16Hz then should be pretty much flat.
You might have aboout $400 tied up in the project.
You might have aboout $400 tied up in the project.
Design Volume Displacement Issue
Assuming that the overlap area between upper and lower bass is at least 2-octaves wide, recommend that the crossover between them be set at, say 64 Hz. Otherwise, the upper bass drivers will most likely impose a severe limitation on volume displacement performance of the system at low frequencies.
For a small footprint subwoofer configuration, use servo control technology. This will deliver very clean and loud bass and sub-bass signals into an at-home venue. If your pockets are deep, look at a pair of Velodyne DD-18+ Units [1], or if on a budget, look at a pair of Rythmik F18 units [2] & [3]. There are other alternatives as well, but these would be my choices.
P.S., After studying the comparison provided by Rythmic, their unit would seem to be the superior choice. WHG
Assuming that the overlap area between upper and lower bass is at least 2-octaves wide, recommend that the crossover between them be set at, say 64 Hz. Otherwise, the upper bass drivers will most likely impose a severe limitation on volume displacement performance of the system at low frequencies.
For a small footprint subwoofer configuration, use servo control technology. This will deliver very clean and loud bass and sub-bass signals into an at-home venue. If your pockets are deep, look at a pair of Velodyne DD-18+ Units [1], or if on a budget, look at a pair of Rythmik F18 units [2] & [3]. There are other alternatives as well, but these would be my choices.
P.S., After studying the comparison provided by Rythmic, their unit would seem to be the superior choice. WHG
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+1... much that's smart in that post.
But crossovers, turnover and slope, should be conjured-up after the speakers are in place, esp in home venues. And there really is no need for the LP and HP to be at the same frequency or otherwise mirror images, except in textbooks, since at those frequencies the room tones (interacting with the locations of speakers and listeners) swamp the simulated design.
B.
What exactly do you mean? Are you concerned that the mains will distort if they're pushed too low? I could just boost the sub's output and adjust the voicing to compensate so that I don't push the main speakers too hard.
I don't know that my pockets are deep enough for that Velodyne! I'm sure it sounds good, but I was not looking for something that far into four figures. I'll have to read more about the Rythmik units; I've heard of servo technology, but haven't heard it in person yet.
I heard Liszt's mighty BACH variations this afternoon on a 4-manual Cassavant. Wow. By my smartphone sound level meter, 101 dB peak. And then tried to play it home with my labyrinth sub that goes to 12 Hz.
Experiencing music at home isn't bringing Carnegie Hall into your living room but producing a different aesthetic characteristic. Like with other music forms, maybe organ reproduction (and also production) isn't simply trying to bring the pedals into your room. Whats about those great rolling beats? That's as far as my old brain can take this line of reasoning.
B.
Experiencing music at home isn't bringing Carnegie Hall into your living room but producing a different aesthetic characteristic. Like with other music forms, maybe organ reproduction (and also production) isn't simply trying to bring the pedals into your room. Whats about those great rolling beats? That's as far as my old brain can take this line of reasoning.
B.
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Answers
Servo control, while significantly reducing low frequency distortion, also allows use of small footprint enclosures for very low frequency reproduction. The price for doing all this, is lower efficiency, as some additional energy is required to precisely control diaphragm excursion. The only commercial implementation for PA venues that I am aware of, is the M-Force driver produced by Powersoft. When auditing a servo controlled sub, "for the very first time", the lack of overhang will be initially perceived as a lack of bass by novitiate audiophiles. WHG
When setting the c/o frequency you need to address large signal paramters of the drivers involved. N.B., For constant output, driver excursion increases inversely with the square of frequency
Yes; and given the bandwidth of typical servo controlled subwoofers, a too-low c/o frequency is unnecessary.
Yes. To do that you will need to raise the c/o frequency as recommended.
Servo control, while significantly reducing low frequency distortion, also allows use of small footprint enclosures for very low frequency reproduction. The price for doing all this, is lower efficiency, as some additional energy is required to precisely control diaphragm excursion. The only commercial implementation for PA venues that I am aware of, is the M-Force driver produced by Powersoft. When auditing a servo controlled sub, "for the very first time", the lack of overhang will be initially perceived as a lack of bass by novitiate audiophiles. WHG
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