Will have an effect on that too, but even if one's system isn't that accurate and even if the "just right" example might sound not right, the other examples of that attribute are still helping to get a feeling for the meaning.
Hi T, what do you mean by compressive VS expansive behaviours and how do these 'characteristics' manifest subjectively ?.
So what is this 'Magic and Voodoo'.....is this label for observations that are not readily explained by 'high school physics' and contradict entrenched belief systems ?.
People get upset when entrenched belief systems are revealed as belief systems.
Dan.
Most likely don't feel the need often for any listening tests, as they are convinced that the numbers tell the whole story.
Further, some are not interested in "boring, blind tests" at all, while others obviously think, that if the results are as expected, no controlled listening tests (even "blinded" ) are needed.
Impression based on a not so large sample size and of course will not be correct for everyone of the group. 🙂
The EBU PEQS CD mentioned is the companion to EBU SQAM CD
.....both are required listening/learning.
Dan.
The more I learn of this industry the more things fall into place.......I’ve heard some horrific offerings in ‘high end’ audio over the years and came away saying to myself, ‘self.....doesn’t anybody even listen to this stuff between design and showroom floor?’ ..... Surely they must.
but maybe not! 🙁
A good guide to this attitude re measurements is to be found on AudioScienceReview (ASR) where most of the members are now filtered/self-selected into those who regard measurements as the only truth - you will find few if any subjective impressions posted without challenge
I doubt anyone would categorize Bruno Putzeys as a subjectivist or doubt his design chops when it comes to digital audio yet he has this to say about measurements which appears eminently sensible to me.
Please don't dismiss with the usual filthy lucre objection "of course he is trying to sell his designs" This guy has designed many class D modules that are used here in DIY designs - there's no doubting his abilities. Let's just try to keep this a technical discussion, for a change!
Read these answers & more here
And just to show that I'm open minded about sine wave testing Vs dynamic signal testing here's his quote that somewhat contradicts me
I doubt anyone would categorize Bruno Putzeys as a subjectivist or doubt his design chops when it comes to digital audio yet he has this to say about measurements which appears eminently sensible to me.
Please don't dismiss with the usual filthy lucre objection "of course he is trying to sell his designs" This guy has designed many class D modules that are used here in DIY designs - there's no doubting his abilities. Let's just try to keep this a technical discussion, for a change!
Read these answers & more here
And just to show that I'm open minded about sine wave testing Vs dynamic signal testing here's his quote that somewhat contradicts me
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It depends on what kind of designer.....the newly out of university LTSpice expert EE will know that his design is electrically ideal and will be reliable but likely does not know what to listen for if ever appraising his creation.
The experienced audio dedicated designer will utilise Spice/CAD in a different way and will of course audition thoroughly and against known references.
I have zero doubt that the likes of Sony ES Series design team (ditto other mfrs) audition and finesse their work......to not do so would be commercial harakiri.
Yup we have all been around long enough to just do this automatically.
Another thing we do is see how far we can push systems before they fall apart subjectively.
Us old guys also listen with out ears and NOT our eyes so enough of the ABX pollution please everybody.
It would have been extremely useful if you had not missed this opportunity to use an array of measuring equipment to spot any effects of the treatment and had done the listening tests properly.
I am sure you and Mark enjoyed yourself, but you did not learn anything useful. Nor can you pass any knowledge on to us. It is just an anacdote of two guys sitting in a room playing with expensive toys.
In the fullness of time and upon further reflection on what you did, I am sure you will come round to my point and realize how presumptuous your claims in the post that triggered all this really are.
The last one of Putzey's quotes that mmerrill99 posted is nicely related to our discussion about the importance of including philosphy of science in the EE course canon.
They have most likely been socially correct mainly, because they both are agreeable people. They have missed a great opportunity to do something interesting and relatively simple right.
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As Markw4 already mentioned in his post about the meeting that RNMarsh's measurement equipment was already shipped to the new destination, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask if it would have even been possible to do a thorough measurement session when the device came back?
And if you would take some of this "(self)reflection" medicine, couldn't it be that a large portion of your post(s) on this topic is just based on bias/strong belief? (assumed that you hadn't recently bought a perfectly working crystal ball 🙂 )
Yes, to some degree, but you don't need to cut the high end. And 500 is already quite high. Most important is to keep the low bass out.
"Current on demand" for CFA.
I will not take the risk to share my personal "subjective" sympathies ;-) as it is never good to generalize.
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It is the same kind of bias/strong belief that brought us to the moon. Oh, wait, you are not telling me ..................YouTube
If I'd assert the opposite, means taking bias-based assumptions as facts would most likely have lead to a completely failure of the "man on the moon" mission....?
Btw, is there an answer to the first question in my previous post?
Probably not. The problem you seem to have is that you weren't there to hear the obvious for yourself, and you do not trust us not to be fooled. It comes down to trust or the lack thereof.
It does seem a bit odd that you don't know or haven't looked around to find some skilled listeners in or around your locale. If you don't believe such can exist, then of course you wouldn't look. But, such people do exist even if outside of your experience, and we happen to be pretty good at it.
You may have read in this thread where Nelson Pass said that Jam, "still has one of the best pairs of ears in the business." The very popular and good sounding Pass Labs HPA-1 was designed by Jam. Many listening tests were done to fine tune the exact sound. You may believe that is possible or not, but it happens to be quite possible, IME.
Also, since Jam is a friend and we sometimes listen together, we have found we hear just about the same way. We have come to trust each other's listening reports because experience has shown that if one of finds a problem there is indeed a problem.
However, I get that since you don't have a skilled listener at your disposal, maybe because you don't want to have one, you cannot replicate anything that we tell you, there in your own lab. Since you are not the trusting type, your own replication is all that is meaningful to you. So it seems anyway. However, perhaps there is more to it than the way it looks from here.
Maybe a skilled listener association is in order?
Spearheading the whole terminology thing would be first order of business!
Spearheading the whole terminology thing would be first order of business!
Yes, you made comments about me and then said sorry I didn't mean they were facts, after I pointed out you were wrong.
No no no, you nasty word twister, that is not what I said. My strong bias is towards the scientific method. It is the only way to keep us out of the woods. My belief is that if you follow the laws of nature, stuff will behave predictably.
And may I reply to your rethorical question with another one?
I don't understand 'current on demand'....for what ? and what is the objective difference ?.
You said
You state 'major difference' of what ?....objective or subjective difference.
This is not challenge I wish to learn what you mean, your take/description of subjective qualities is fine with me, with objective qualities even better.
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