Oddly that someone was not Toole, Geddes, Olive, Keele, Danley or any of the other clever people out there who design proper high performance speakers. You may be remembering some classic Scottish gobshite from Ivor Tiefenbrun in the 70s when he was trying to get people to part with lots of money for his turntables.
Went to Costco today and got a large box 😀
Odd that you wouldn't think the same of speaker designers - they might be "trying to get people to part with lots of money for" their speakers (particularly considering the high quality speakers from the designers or the people they work for, are often far more expensive than the electronics)? If you areonly concerned with monetary motivations, it makes sense to look at who has most to gain - speakers are generally more expensive than electronics
I prefer to think of it as people focusing on what they have experienced & believe is the truth. But hey-ho, anyone can assign scurrilous motivations to any position
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You know a lot of recording engineers and what they have at home?
The ones I know cant afford the $40k main monitor system we had at the studio.
Or they dont want the shitty Ns-10s they use in the studio. Usualy something in between.
Most try to listen to there mixes on multiple monitors, large expensive, home type bookshelves, and even a 3" mono. They will even go out to the car, and these days try earbuds. The object is to make it sound the best you can everywhere, very hard to do.
As I've suggested before, compare the square wave measurement from your amp output vs in front of your favorite speaker's driver. You aren't afraid of the outcome, are you?
Regarding your customers, what do you charge for your amp?
You are clearly not aware of the way Ivor T operated in his prime. And you are completely wrong with the 'speakers are generally more expensive than electronics' in this context. Don Keele's CBT 36 is available as a kit for $1800. Earl also made kits available for reasonable money and his built units were not that much. Yes the Revel models that Toole uses at home are around $22k a pair, but he's driving them with $20k levinson monoblocks (and he would not have paid list for them!). So in his case 11k per side for the speaker and 20k per side for the amplifier.
And note all the people I listed put the science of speaker design first and the marketing later (except Ivor who was all mouth).
If you want to compare like with like then compare speaker kits with amp kits & I would suggest that the market for kits is very limited so we are talking about finished products not DIY or self-assembly products.
So considering the general view here that competently defined amplifiers operated in their comfort zone, are essentially equivalent then, according to this, a £250 amp is equivalent sounding to $20K Levinson monoblocks.
Do you have a different opinion to this?
A £250 speaker I would contend is nothing like the sound of a $20K speaker - would you?
So my statement still stands - speakers are very much more expensive than amplifiers - you know shitty NS-10s don't qualify as good speakers for many but £250 Denon amp does
But what about filthy lucre & bias? Does this not play a big role in the mindset of a lot here? So by that very logic those speaker designers have been corrupted by the commercial aspects - I may be wrong, as I haven't studied it, but did a lot of Olive's research occur while working for Harmon? I don't believe he had a Spinorama before working for Harmon - from which the foundation of his multidimensional measurements were derived?
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This is a DIY site we can talk about kits all we want!
White man speak with forked tongue. Not playing this game
Mark drives his NS-10s with a $4k benchmark power amp. So no your statement is pulled out of thin air.
[qujote]
But what about filthy lucre & bias? Does this not play a big role in the mindset of a lot here? So by that very logic those speaker designers have been corrupted by the commercial aspects - I may be wrong, as I haven't studied it, but did a lot of Olive's research occurred while working for Harmon? I don't believe he had a Spinorama before working for Harmon - from which the foundation of his multidimensional measurements were derived?[/QUOTE]
Seriously learn to spell check names. You are just ranting here with no research and reasoning. Rolling pidgeon chess. Pointless to even bother.
Give up - you are even more tedious than normal with this BS
Ah, well - I see you have no argument left - just ad homs - fair enough
Here’s me thinking I was in for a nice chat about sine waves and music and system testing and all anyone wants to talk about today is Beryl the Peril. I expect far too much for my own good. ToS
I glanced over that and will read it more closely later, but it seems like a good step forward to me. Most industries have standardized terminology and I’m finding the deeper I dig into audio the more convoluted the terminology gets!
When hanging out in the monkey cage one must expect the poop slinging as par for the course. 😀
I have learned a lot from Ivor, and I have used his turntable since 1974. It is not the very best, but it is adequate (better than almost all others) and easy to use, once set up. He does have a propaganda message that I tend to put up with.
Good to see an even handed response here Richard.
Between the three of you, I'm sure you will get a handle on what is happening sound wise.
Even if, in a worst case scenario, say 80% of what they have done is BS, hopefully there is still something there to look at and learn from.
Is there a detailed breakdown on the DAC3 mods that are done, or is he keeping most of it under wraps.
T
No, I don't want to do things like that. It will be duplicated easily. I have thought about renting to a niche group of musicians but couldn't see the prospect. Have been thinking about making a small compensation block consisting of resistor and capacitor SMDs then put them in black resin but aren't sure it will work. Been thinking of designing with current pump topology amp where it can't be duplicated as long as I can hide the model of the input opamp (they are cheap in large quantity).
But something that has never been proved (and i was sceptical) is, do others think that the amps really sound that good? I'm thinking about joining a local amp shootout to hear opinions from those who are familiar with the sound of expensive amps.
But i think, may be this should be kept just as a hobby. Even tho I have spent almost my entire life with this useless hobby, I prefer to sell something much more intelligent product than just subjective quality audio products.
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