I'll probably go @ Chicago Riot Fest Sept. 13-15. Mostly for BK and Violent Femmes.
I don't see where there is any controversy, see for instance the easily measured second harmonic in/out of phase discussion. As long as designers design in effects this discussion will go on and on. What is there to admit to, imagine sending your wife or daughter to have a mammogram on a device designed by someone working in their garage with a "better idea".
I am likely in the small population being discussed and design for myself, family, and close friends. No profit motive. I think JC, Jam, and others design for themselves too. In addition, some others, not me, are in business. There is nothing sinister hiding behind use of one particular word, "we."
Also, the population I mentioned is small expressed as a percentage. Presumably it is numerically large enough for useful statistics to apply. If there were funding and interest to study population hearing and listening preferences, that is.
Didn't you say you were going to sit quietly and enjoy the entertainment? Can't resist trying to start another debate appears to be more like it. In that case, sorry, not interested. Science and engineering disputes can't be properly resolved by debate. Research funding similar to what the food industry spends on its research might be helpful. If you know any rich donors that might be interested, maybe they could talk to the professional perceptual research people.
That's really, really funny
.P.S. Wait, "for trying to make a living" qualifies as "for themselves", so you are right.
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Please. We all know music reproduction audio is 'entertainment' business. Medicine is not (except maybe some aspects/applications of things like plastic surgery and teeth whitening).
Great lineup, **** Sparrer and The Selecter too. I need to see my 95 yr. old mother in Milwaukee more often maybe we could meet up.
EDIT - **** really how trite.
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Not quite sure I get that analogy but if someone in the garage actually does come up with a better idea should it not be considered because it came from a ‘garage’?
Lots of genius starts out in sheds/garages, music included!
Edit....what is meant by ‘as long as designers design in effects’ ?
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So, we basically had the same idea for an alternative test approach.
We did such a test with preamplifiers (quite regularly written about the specifics and mentioned on various occasions in this forum) and I can assure you, that such test results don´t interest those who belief the contrary.
If it wasn't published -> it does not count
If it wasn't peer reviewed -> it does not count
IF it was, but got the "wrong results" ,then it was the wrong journal, the wrong (group of) reviewers -> it does not count
At the end, if nothing else helps, it was an incompetent (or pathological) design
Speaking of different test proposals; given the fact that the shortcomings of the usual controlled "blind" test regimes are indeed known for some time (across several fields) I mentioned that it would be a good idea to use (solely or even better in combination with controlled "blind" tests) qualitative methods. I did so at another forum (where members claim to be interestend in a scientific approach to audio) and one member asked what the meaning of "qualitative method" could be (legitimate question,but with a little effort easy to find out) while another responded to this question with "I have read it four times and concluded that it does mean nothing" .
If it were just single events - no matter, but this kind of thinking seems to be quite characteristic for a certain group of posters (non-golden-ears) so it could be that it is not so much a matter of new test/method ideas.
I totally agree to your statements about measurment numbers, but the underlying basis of this "great debate" was (afair) that one group is adamant about finding all the truth in the limited set of numbers that are usually available for products.
If nothing else helps, falling back to the "incompetent or pathological design" assertion is the next step.
Obviously so, but given that there is even no consensus about the quality of a real sound event, why should it be differently wrt lossy reproduced events?
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You seem to be quite the Zappa fan......aside from all the ‘odd’ he was a very fine blues guitarist.
He composed classical music as well - look for him on Spotify. A seriously talented and hugely quirky individual.
Zappa's best concert ever was in 1971 at the Montreux casino, Switzerland, with the 2 former singers of the Turtles. The casino burned down, and Deep Purple, who were there recording, wrote "Smoke on the Water". I was in the audience when all hell broke loose.
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