Hi,
I have friend who play with mates in group. They have got some how 4xCelestion BL10-100 and they ask me to build guitar speaker "with transparent sound and good bass" they even show me picture from the Internet
I have no exp with guitar speakers and multi-way speakers. I have build just about 5 pairs on full range.
Could you advise what twitter to use (better avalable on parts express) and crossover (better soldered fron same shop).
I can calculate box but open for advice.
I have friend who play with mates in group. They have got some how 4xCelestion BL10-100 and they ask me to build guitar speaker "with transparent sound and good bass" they even show me picture from the Internet
I have no exp with guitar speakers and multi-way speakers. I have build just about 5 pairs on full range.
Could you advise what twitter to use (better avalable on parts express) and crossover (better soldered fron same shop).
I can calculate box but open for advice.
Having been in bands and done a lot of PA and FOH work, guitarists almost never need a 4x10. If they insist on using all 4 drivers, build 2 x 2x10. It'll be much easier to load in/out in that config anyway.
Edit: According to Celestion they are bass drivers so unlikely to sound good with guitar.
A generic xover is unlikely to work well and sound good. You'll likely need to design a custom unit, though MI stuff is usually a simple design.
If this is really for guitar, they a) won't need a tweeter, and b) you'll need an appropriate guitar driver. Celestion make many, as do Eminence etc. Most guitar enclosures are open back. Copy an existing unit.
If it's for bass, then make it in the 2 x 2x10 format and build them first leaving the physical space in one for the tweeter if it's decided it's needed. Depending on what the bassist uses as their instrument, it might be a waste of time adding it. A P bass with flats definitely won't, but a bass with an extended bandwidth such as Alembic, Steinberger or Status or a 6 stringer may well benefit from it.
If it is for bass, IME 4x10's generally sound like muddy crap. Sell the drivers and build a fEARful (search for it) as there are several complete designs incl xovers.
Edit: According to Celestion they are bass drivers so unlikely to sound good with guitar.
A generic xover is unlikely to work well and sound good. You'll likely need to design a custom unit, though MI stuff is usually a simple design.
If this is really for guitar, they a) won't need a tweeter, and b) you'll need an appropriate guitar driver. Celestion make many, as do Eminence etc. Most guitar enclosures are open back. Copy an existing unit.
If it's for bass, then make it in the 2 x 2x10 format and build them first leaving the physical space in one for the tweeter if it's decided it's needed. Depending on what the bassist uses as their instrument, it might be a waste of time adding it. A P bass with flats definitely won't, but a bass with an extended bandwidth such as Alembic, Steinberger or Status or a 6 stringer may well benefit from it.
If it is for bass, IME 4x10's generally sound like muddy crap. Sell the drivers and build a fEARful (search for it) as there are several complete designs incl xovers.
That is a Bass speaker, unusable with guitar.
Ading tweeters won´t help, quite the contrary, will give you "angry bees in a can" buzzy sound.
8x10" cabinets are **the** standard in Bass sound, that´s all you see in 90% of large Stadium onstage backlines.
4x10" is the way to carry almost all of that sound but in a realistic way for bands NOT moving around in Semi trailer trucks and with a full complement of biker style stage hands.
And you can easily stack 2 of 4x10" units to build an 8 x 10" "fridge" equivalent which will sound and carry exactly the same.
Tons of KILLER 4 x 10" around so not sure where the hate comes from.
Here´s a fee sample of 4 x 10" cabinets stocked with some version of, precisely, Celestion BL-80 or BL-100 (same speaker just being reinforced along years, currently standing 150 or 200W)
YouTube
Would you call 4 x 10" sound muddy crap????
An more modern example of "muddy" 4 x 10" sound:
YouTube
FearFul cabinets are very good, and they don´t need to, literally, "throw mud" over other cabinets to get ahead in the race.
Over the top fans doing that are not exactly helping them, quite the contrary.
Ading tweeters won´t help, quite the contrary, will give you "angry bees in a can" buzzy sound.
8x10" cabinets are **the** standard in Bass sound, that´s all you see in 90% of large Stadium onstage backlines.
4x10" is the way to carry almost all of that sound but in a realistic way for bands NOT moving around in Semi trailer trucks and with a full complement of biker style stage hands.
And you can easily stack 2 of 4x10" units to build an 8 x 10" "fridge" equivalent which will sound and carry exactly the same.
Tons of KILLER 4 x 10" around so not sure where the hate comes from.
Here´s a fee sample of 4 x 10" cabinets stocked with some version of, precisely, Celestion BL-80 or BL-100 (same speaker just being reinforced along years, currently standing 150 or 200W)
YouTube
Would you call 4 x 10" sound muddy crap????
An more modern example of "muddy" 4 x 10" sound:
YouTube
FearFul cabinets are very good, and they don´t need to, literally, "throw mud" over other cabinets to get ahead in the race.
Over the top fans doing that are not exactly helping them, quite the contrary.
Don’t use MDF......too damn heavy. Use 18mm Baltic Birch plywood. Will probobly cost you more to build it than to buy a used empty cabinet in reality.
Celestion BL10-100X - 10 inch Bass Guitar Speaker
These are bass speakers.
For bass 10" speakers are "the norm". You can do 95% of all gigs with a 4x10.
I would build 2 cases with 2x10" speakers for the bass player and make them wedge shaped for monitoring.
Tweeters are a waste of money for bass guitar imo.
If your building for a guitarist, choose different speakers.
These are bass speakers.
For bass 10" speakers are "the norm". You can do 95% of all gigs with a 4x10.
I would build 2 cases with 2x10" speakers for the bass player and make them wedge shaped for monitoring.
Tweeters are a waste of money for bass guitar imo.
If your building for a guitarist, choose different speakers.
Everyone saying it won't work needs to go and look at the Fender Bassman 4x10 model. It was originally intended for bass guitar, but guitarists also like it.
You can do 100% of gigs with a 1x12" for guitar, and a 2x10" for bass. All the backline amp needs to do is keep up with the drum kit. If the drum kit is going through the PA system, the amp should also be reinforced (whether DI'd or mic'd).
For E-guitar, I'd build the smallest box that will go around the drivers, and have the middle 1/3rd of the back panel removable. Don't bother with the tweeter.
Chris
You can do 100% of gigs with a 1x12" for guitar, and a 2x10" for bass. All the backline amp needs to do is keep up with the drum kit. If the drum kit is going through the PA system, the amp should also be reinforced (whether DI'd or mic'd).
For E-guitar, I'd build the smallest box that will go around the drivers, and have the middle 1/3rd of the back panel removable. Don't bother with the tweeter.
Chris
Well, hardly seems worth it to pile on, but I'll add my 2 cents.
1) Ignoring the fact that they are nominally "bass guitar" drivers, if you look at the TS parameters they are fine for guitar.
2) Not sure if you are aware, but you don't calculate a guitar speaker box as you do hifi. They are far from flat.
If it were me I would just clone a Marshall 4x10 cabinet using the drivers you have. You can just Google box plans.
1) Ignoring the fact that they are nominally "bass guitar" drivers, if you look at the TS parameters they are fine for guitar.
2) Not sure if you are aware, but you don't calculate a guitar speaker box as you do hifi. They are far from flat.
If it were me I would just clone a Marshall 4x10 cabinet using the drivers you have. You can just Google box plans.
Fully agree with you. Bass guitar speakers are tougher than regular guitar speakers and should work for normal guitar. If you are after that' sound of someone who is said to use x brand speakers, amps and cabinet, you can go after that'. I used a 400 watts bass speaker (not 400w head
Ampeg VT-40 was a 60 Watt tube *combo* 4x10. Played clear and LOUD.
The individual speakers were not over-bright, but it adds-up in array.
The VT-40 was much too heavy for me to move as I got past 30. At age 50 I fixed it up and hand-trucked it to a bunch of young folk. Even so, I bet it stays in the studio, not gigs.
We also had a Yamaha copy of the Shure Vocal Master, this with *two* 4x10 arrays as columns. When I was young I moved the rig everywhere.
The individual speakers were not over-bright, but it adds-up in array.
The VT-40 was much too heavy for me to move as I got past 30. At age 50 I fixed it up and hand-trucked it to a bunch of young folk. Even so, I bet it stays in the studio, not gigs.
We also had a Yamaha copy of the Shure Vocal Master, this with *two* 4x10 arrays as columns. When I was young I moved the rig everywhere.
Thank you for advice.
I did not know that bass guitar, guitar and hi-fi speakers are different.
As I'll try to copy Marshall 4*10 how to calculate box?
Just adding Vas 4*25 = 100 litters is far too big...
I did not know that bass guitar, guitar and hi-fi speakers are different.
As I'll try to copy Marshall 4*10 how to calculate box?
Just adding Vas 4*25 = 100 litters is far too big...
I have found the plan
will it work for Celestion BL10-100?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
will it work for Celestion BL10-100?
Remember to correct other dimensions too.
As in: an 11" diameter hole is "slightly large" 😱 for a 10" speaker and so on 😀
As in: an 11" diameter hole is "slightly large" 😱 for a 10" speaker and so on 😀
Your cabinet will sound somewhat "dull" and not too loud, but if you connect it to a guitar amp and play a guitar through it, you will have sound, no doubt about that.
It also depends on what kind of Music you are playing ... asan example Jazz players love dark Guitar sound, so much so that amps such as Polytone or Evans include a "dark" switch or a pot control doing that.
Thiele parameters are fine ... but do not explain much on Guitar speakers; while frequency response is much more useful:
BL 10 100X (Bass)
G10 Greenback (Guitar)
Simplifying: Guitar speaker has more Bass 😱 (at guitar frequencies that is), significantly less mids (which our ear perceives as having more bass and treble) and a wider high frequency area, mainly 2 peaks at 2000 and 3200 Hz, response keeping average value up to 5kHz, while Bass speaker has strong even mids in the 250 to 800 Hz area (so it will be "warmer") and a single narrow peak around 2800Hz ... great for Bass slap players, not that much for Guitar although better vthan nothing.
yes, your Guitar cabinet will be *usable*, just don´t expect miracles.
It also depends on what kind of Music you are playing ... asan example Jazz players love dark Guitar sound, so much so that amps such as Polytone or Evans include a "dark" switch or a pot control doing that.
Thiele parameters are fine ... but do not explain much on Guitar speakers; while frequency response is much more useful:
BL 10 100X (Bass)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
G10 Greenback (Guitar)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Simplifying: Guitar speaker has more Bass 😱 (at guitar frequencies that is), significantly less mids (which our ear perceives as having more bass and treble) and a wider high frequency area, mainly 2 peaks at 2000 and 3200 Hz, response keeping average value up to 5kHz, while Bass speaker has strong even mids in the 250 to 800 Hz area (so it will be "warmer") and a single narrow peak around 2800Hz ... great for Bass slap players, not that much for Guitar although better vthan nothing.
yes, your Guitar cabinet will be *usable*, just don´t expect miracles.
I would recommend the Fane Ascension series guitar speakers. Currently 30% off
Fane Acoustics - Guitar Loudspeakers
Fane Acoustics - Guitar Loudspeakers
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Very true, I am a FANE fan myself, but I *guess* the OP is in Russia and "has to work with what he has".
Apparently he may import "small stuff" such as Tweeters or crossovers but anything larger/heavier/more expensive won´t do.
Apparently he may import "small stuff" such as Tweeters or crossovers but anything larger/heavier/more expensive won´t do.
Am I understand you correct that with proper guitar amp the box will be Ok and there are no easy way to correct box for the driver that is not that good for guitar?
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Hi,
I have check Fane site if we switch from 4*10 Celestion to 2*12 Fane F90 it is about two times more expensive.
Will be 2*F90 a good solution for bass guiter? Sorry no way to listen as my friend in Novosibirsk...
The amp they have INVOTONE B900
I have check Fane site if we switch from 4*10 Celestion to 2*12 Fane F90 it is about two times more expensive.
Will be 2*F90 a good solution for bass guiter? Sorry no way to listen as my friend in Novosibirsk...
The amp they have INVOTONE B900
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