OK, we are good with that!
What I like about Pavel's approach is his unrelenting objectivity. If he can truly understand what he sees - irrespective of what it is - it would help Dan a lot. It is very difficult to set up a flawless, repeatable methodology, regardless of what is being studied or experimentation with. This is why Pavel has had to stand back for awhile, for which I respect him completely. ToS
Sometimes the only way is either to get someone else to take a listen, or put it away for maybe a couple of weeks and work on something else. When you listen fresh you will be more likely to catch what you missed before. In theory, the mastering engineer is supposed to catch anything that slipped by in mixing and send it back if needed, so that should help too.
He has gone to the trouble of doing a number of listening tests on the forum that have been open to maximum audience participation with no hint of "if you can't hear the difference then you don't deserve to live" (or words to that effect) In one of his tests I heard an anomaly which he and others hadn't. When I mentioned it to him he found it in the spectrum, not that I need to prove anything about what I can and cannot hear (Dan)
You know, during a mix process, and unless the artist has a very good producer, like Quincy Jones, you just feel like the captain of a boat that has no crue. Only passengers, dancing at the bar and happy of the travel ;-)
Not to forget that the bassist want more bass, the drummer more drums, and some singers, the music at the end of the corridor on the left .
Hum, the mastering engineer is your client, and expect to be as well in the future, see what I mean ? And he cannot do a lot on the mix, apart slight correction on the tonal balance and the global dynamic (usually trying to let him compress the signal more, for the radios, the woman in the kitchen blabla. ;-).
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Client? He or she is a team member who is paid by someone. If you tell them what you want is if they find any problems they can't fully fix, then to let you know and you will fix it. If they doesn't want to do that, I would try to find a different person next time. Besides, today mastering engineers are often sent stems so they can fix more than they used to be able to. They don't exactly like that, but most of them need the work and will not refuse.
That's often true when the budget is low so no producer is hired, and not good for your career if the band agree among themselves to insist you do what they want done.
We don't want the old fogeys getting lost
Etymology (wiki)
In 1811, an Old Fogey was a nickname for an invalid, wounded soldier; derived from the French fougueux (“fierce or fiery”).
Making suggestions and suppositions is fine, but what you are saying here has ZERO place in any discussion where subjectivity is involved. If you are claiming some objective difference, please show it in some declarative way, by subtraction, instrumentation or otherwise.
To suggest you have discovered a way to determine whether or not someone has good hearing is ignorant. On the other hand if you are claiming a new religion, you can always claim to have the sole channel to your god.
Max, please stop the ultimatums.
Regards,
Howie
ps. sorry to be so far behind the chat, I was at a Amateur Radio convention...talk about a bunch of old fogies! I resemble that!
Ta, will catch that on iplayer tomorrow. Wife I am sure will have a problem with large chunks of it
She knows what she likes! My ear is not yet fully tuned to the microtonality of Indian Classical music, but I'm working on it as so much late 20th century American and European classical music borrows and expands on it that it seems a necessary part on ongoing learning in musical appreciation.
I am sure some of the greybeards here were around SF when minimalism emerged in the 60s so can rightly say they were 'there' (or not there depending on the drugs in use at the time!)
I am sure some of the greybeards here were around SF when minimalism emerged in the 60s so can rightly say they were 'there' (or not there depending on the drugs in use at the time!)
I'd be glad to help Dan with the analysis stuff because that's a field I have great expertise in, but after inspection his various files he recorded in loopback with his Tascam device (which one?) it is utterly clear that something is severly broken. I see random drop-outs (zeroed-out zones), sample sequence shifts (sometimes by one sample, sometimes several) typically occuring after a drop-out, and, quite interestingly, in the Lane del Rey files also slow periodic gain drifts alternating between channels, plus general (stable) gain differences, sometimes several dB's for both.
This all makes any approach to isolate the "true differences" via subtraction futile. And it also spoils any A/B compare or ABX like Pavel has pointed out. He needs something better, like an RME Adi-2 Pro FS which is a precision interface with excellent stability and can give a deep null from two consecutive recordings without any change in between -- the basic null test prerequisite needed. Not to mention the signal quality of the DAC and ADC itself.
Things is, even if those ill effects of the Tascam supposedly won't skew the main perception too much it makes analysis impossible. If we find something in the listening test we then would like to know what causes it, and that can be found by subtraction -- but only when the difference isn't spoiled with other much larger errors that have nothing to do with what we actually want to search for.
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Problems ? How a recording problem could happens in studio ? if, for some reasons, a problem happens, we redo. Immediately.
And the work in progress is listened so many times, by so many people that I don't see how could a technical mistake could survive.
I was talking about artistic decisions. I never asked any question of that order to a mastering engineer. Apart fishing for compliments ;-)
And never heard any unsolicited comment: they don't know who decided of what and are not supposed to be here for this.
The only thing they really do is to change slightly the response curve, and not always in a good way. And dynamic (see a result from a successful record attached. I doubt it was as it out of the studio.:
Well, I was friend of one of them, in the vinyl time, at the time they were really useful. We compared our musical tastes, talked about gears, monitors, girls and food ;-)
A team ? Hum. We are always a real band of friends, in this business ... As you are a old friend of the hostess in a luxury hotel ;-)
Attachments
Was it the compagny quoted here Simple Symetrical Amplifier ?
You may not have been very close to Mr Gogny. He is known as Georges Gogny and not as inventor of Orthophase :
L'''histoire de l'''Orthophase | Orthophase. Com - Accueil!
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I have a chromebook, Google/YouTube is doing this sort of thing a lot lately, it's not a coincidence surely? I have not typed the word microtonal that I can remember, ever, this has just been recommended to me, it is interesting/handy at times, but also a little creepy YouTube
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