- wonder what Bill Fitzmaurice has which might be appropriate ? - some of his designs pack a lot of path into not much volume so "shelve" below a point. I like his idea of using 12mm Baltic birch. Jim Bell's "SS15" cabinet is popular and compact - use 8 and maybe would be pretty strong. SS15 is a little tapped horn. Six of them (2S/3P) loaded with Kappalite 3015LF show 2 pi 140dB at 46Hz, some xmax left over, at 120v input. How do TH sound compared to FLH ?
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fwiw - a 2 pi/120v sim of 6 (2s/3p) of Jim Bell's "SS15" tapped horn cabinet loaded with Kappalite 3015LF
setting a 4th order highpass anywhere from 38-40Hz looks good to protect the drivers.
setting a 4th order highpass anywhere from 38-40Hz looks good to protect the drivers.
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I haven't heard them yet. The measurement plots don't look like anything else and there's no information on how they were made. That makes a comparison and evaluation of the cabs very difficult. So far the Titan 39 look most promising of them. The problem is, the lab12 he's using are very expensive and are known to have serious flaws like losing the dustcap because of the pressure in horns. The Ciare 12.00SW got the same problem in the punisher horn.
Your mentioning of the Lab12 reminded me of something I've read quite a while ago. Here in the forum is a thread of a 35Hz horn using the Lab 12. The driver with ~240€ a piece isn't the cheapest one but if it performs like the thread promises, it would be a very hot candidate, nearly ideal for this scenario. Going low with high output and still quite manage-able size. Outdoors the stack size has to be bigger though (as it is with every sub) or the number of ppl in the audience reduced to 1/4 to 1/3. And I'm not so sure about it because the mouth surface is pretty small. But I don't want to prejudice anything, I haven't seen or heard it yet.
Your mentioning of the Lab12 reminded me of something I've read quite a while ago. Here in the forum is a thread of a 35Hz horn using the Lab 12. The driver with ~240€ a piece isn't the cheapest one but if it performs like the thread promises, it would be a very hot candidate, nearly ideal for this scenario. Going low with high output and still quite manage-able size. Outdoors the stack size has to be bigger though (as it is with every sub) or the number of ppl in the audience reduced to 1/4 to 1/3. And I'm not so sure about it because the mouth surface is pretty small. But I don't want to prejudice anything, I haven't seen or heard it yet.
true - not quite to 40Hz - but small (30"x22"x24")-+and light being made of 1/2" plywood and loaded with neo - 15. I come from the daze of 4 - string bass guitars and not playing anything much lower than a "G" (G1 = 48.99943Hz) on the low E string. plus kick drums tuned around 50-55Hz - so a solid 50 might be ok for that music - round wound bass strings have harmonics stronger than the fundamental - of course that means little when a synth is playing very low)
Here's the plan by TB46 - the cabinet above and how it blends would be important.
http://hornplans.free.fr/singlesheet_2_2010_Aug18_dwg.pdf
Here's the plan by TB46 - the cabinet above and how it blends would be important.
http://hornplans.free.fr/singlesheet_2_2010_Aug18_dwg.pdf
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Guys,
I know for sure I want to go with 2 MTB246 and a single T3V.
I'll use a Proline 3000 for subs but I don't know what amp I should use for the single T3V?
And what DSP should I use for the best quality/price ratio ?
Thank you
I know for sure I want to go with 2 MTB246 and a single T3V.
I'll use a Proline 3000 for subs but I don't know what amp I should use for the single T3V?
And what DSP should I use for the best quality/price ratio ?
Thank you
Uhm, that's not right, the low E on the bass runs around 40 Hz. For raggae, it's often even lower. They often play a 5 string or tune the 4 string low, which is much lower, ranging in the 30s. Normal bass looks like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Bass Frequency Range | Bass Gear | StudyBass
As you can see, they are really from 40 up. That's the least requirement, likely wanted to go much lower. There are a lot of raggae songs which miss a lot if the speakers are only 50Hz up and some which require even 32Hz. You can get away with a pretty hefty group delay though on this music genre, so band pass subs etc. still work quite well.
Well, in this thread it does not nearly go down to 40Hz. At least the lowcut isn't as critical, maybe a big stack goes low enough.
the harmonics of a round wound 5 string bass low B are lots stronger than its ~31.5Hz fundamental. I admit I was a crappy bassist but rarely used an open E. The W-bins of that day pooped out below 60Hz.
Jim Bell's SS15 could be scaled 1.2:1 with a resultant size around 36"x24.4"x 28.8" and loaded with Sigma 18-2. - then 40Hz could be met.
here's the scaled SS15 vs C-V's EL36 - four of each, Sigma 18-2, 90v, 2 pi and 37Hz 4th order highpass
as usual - its tradeoffs - maybe the FLH "sound" better "blend better" ?
Jim Bell's SS15 could be scaled 1.2:1 with a resultant size around 36"x24.4"x 28.8" and loaded with Sigma 18-2. - then 40Hz could be met.
here's the scaled SS15 vs C-V's EL36 - four of each, Sigma 18-2, 90v, 2 pi and 37Hz 4th order highpass
as usual - its tradeoffs - maybe the FLH "sound" better "blend better" ?
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Well, seems I've googled and wrote for too long to see the reply in time. I don't see them fit for your requirements and I hope you didn't made your mind up on this thread but that's ofcourse you who decides.
The Proline 3000 is very heavy but an excellent bass amp if the weight does not count. You need 6 amp channels, for the T3V, so a TSA 4-1300 and a TA-600 are a very good budget choice at 500 and 200€. As a DSP, since you need 8 channels, the t.racks 408 (500) is the cheapest new 8ch PA dsp I know.
Heh, yeah, I remember the times when the W-bins were the sh*t to go. 😀
How low it has to go strongly depends on the music you're playing. For tons of songs 50Hz is plenty.
That looks sooo much better than the MTB246. That's the absolute minimum requirement IMHO, but ofcourse it's not my opinion that counts, it's KaliMero56's. I'd then build rather build scoops than the MTBs but, yeah, whatever.
here's something silly sim-ed - a stack of 9 BFM T18 - driver cost in US <$250 - how they would last = ? (rated 120 watts & 8mm Xmax) - think they are 18 inch cubes so a stack would be 4.5 foot high by 4.5 foot wide, maybe weigh 40lb per box (?)
It does? It isn't this one?
If it isn't this one, it must be a much older model and there are not much used on the market. And the older model doesn't have FIR filters or limiting.
Who cares about the fan, if in doubt you can swap it for a few bucks, that's not the problem. I've already got very bad experience with USB-RS232 converters, very unreliable and often poops out exactly when you need it. You often can't resync if the usb hangs for a moment.
Yes, that is a must. A meas. mic and an external soundcard is needed too, some other controllers got their own measurement system or a mic in.
@KaliMero56: Do you have any PA equipment already? Any amps, mixer, laptop, etc? The budget is quite a challenge for these requirements if you have to start from zero. You need a mixer and a laptop or turntables and CD players as sound sources, dsp and amps, that's a requirement for all systems.
Thats a different one the units I have are (8x8 DSP):
http://warehousesound.com/r/symetrixDSP88manual.pdf
Cobra Link (this does require external PSU but said PSU cost me £5):
http://www.symetrix.co/repository/SymNet_Full_Line_Catalog_EN.pdf
I also have an audio science cobranet card for my computer but I haven't had time to get it all configured, just play with the DSP. It can do FIR but it uses a lot of the processing capability, also supports limiting. The unit is programed using a flow graph type programing environment so is very flexible. Hardware controls can be added using the logic inputs. Compared to an off the shelf solution its cheaper and more capable but it is not user friendly and requires a lot of setup.
using old school horn proportions, here's a 1.17 scale Cerwin Vega EL36 loaded with PRV's neodymium 21" speaker in 2 pi at 134v for four cabinets in series-parallel. That cabinet would be ~42"H x 42"D x 28" wide
I see PRV has changed the specs for their woofers from the spec at partsexpress
B&C's 21SW115 sims as well or better so that would be a good choice
BC 21SW115 4 cabs
I see PRV has changed the specs for their woofers from the spec at partsexpress
B&C's 21SW115 sims as well or better so that would be a good choice
BC 21SW115 4 cabs
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Looks good on the first glance. The drivers are 760€ each, that's already over 3000, without wood, amps, dsp and tops.
Edit: Found them for 500, didn't saw your link.
Edit2: They have too much excursion (13.25 mm) for the horn, the ends of the coils will burn up because they can't dissipate the heat to the pole plate. That are drivers you can't use in such a horn. BR or BP, maybe BPH would be a good enclosure.
Edit: Found them for 500, didn't saw your link.
Edit2: They have too much excursion (13.25 mm) for the horn, the ends of the coils will burn up because they can't dissipate the heat to the pole plate. That are drivers you can't use in such a horn. BR or BP, maybe BPH would be a good enclosure.
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thanks for the excessive overhang meltdown info - I didn't realize that effect. So a well designed 21" with say 8mm of xmax would be good. Maybe the physical overhang isn't as much as their xmax figures - coil and gap height specs would help. B&C indicates ~10mm of physical overhang for 21SW115
I can see where things could get very hot in the areas where lots of power is going into the cone - but not much movement.
anyhow, fwiw the B&C 21SW115 vs the old spec PRV. When PRV first introduced a 21" at US Partsexpress, that model had a ferrite magnet made of "halves" - the price was good
Good/cheap 18" would save a lot of money vs 21"
I can see where things could get very hot in the areas where lots of power is going into the cone - but not much movement.
anyhow, fwiw the B&C 21SW115 vs the old spec PRV. When PRV first introduced a 21" at US Partsexpress, that model had a ferrite magnet made of "halves" - the price was good
Good/cheap 18" would save a lot of money vs 21"
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Getting back to 18 inch speakers, which are known to give reliable service at the lowest cost in horns ? - I've used 18" Eminence, but only at home and never in horn duty.
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