Hi I tried asking about this in the PC-Based forum, but received no reply there, so I will try here, maybe I will have more luck. A few months ago, when I was trying several different DACs, abraxalito recommended me to listen to a TDA1387 based DAC. That recommendation was great, this was the one that I chose to stay with, from all the ones that I purchased. I enjoy it a lot, and after seeing how an old, MultiBit DAC is different than what we have today, I would like to listen to more like this. I have no need for high resolution DACs, so the older ones are great for me. My question is, which ones (from the older ones) are recommended? And how can I buy them, today in 2019? Have I missed the train, or there is a way to get other old ones that sound good? Thank you all
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Well, there are a lot of old R2R DACs still selling, for example there are full kits using the AD1865. Chip only, you'll find PCM56/PCM58/PCM1702/PCM1704, AD1860.
I can recommend getting either Ians I2S to PCM board or Jlsounds I2SoverUSB interface, both providing the necessary data stream formats required to operate these kind of converters.
I can recommend getting either Ians I2S to PCM board or Jlsounds I2SoverUSB interface, both providing the necessary data stream formats required to operate these kind of converters.
Thank you very much weissi
Can you please tell me which of these DAC Chips sound better?
(to help me avoid not having to buy all of them and try them all)
Can you please tell me which of these DAC Chips sound better?
(to help me avoid not having to buy all of them and try them all)
There is no answer to that question because everyone has their own preference.
I prefer the TDA1541 to the AD1862 or AD1865 but only just.
The I/V conversion used makes more difference as does whether you use non oversampling or not. I prefer NOS, passive I/V and transformer with two 1541A dacs operating in balanced simultaneous configuration.
I prefer the TDA1541 to the AD1862 or AD1865 but only just.
The I/V conversion used makes more difference as does whether you use non oversampling or not. I prefer NOS, passive I/V and transformer with two 1541A dacs operating in balanced simultaneous configuration.
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Thank you batteryman 🙂
Indeed I read good things about TDA1541A,
it seems that the TDA1541A chip has 4 versions:
- TDA1541A
- TDA1541A R1
- TDA1541A S1
- TDA1541A S2
and the last 2 (S1, S2) are the best out of them.
Is that correct in your opinion too?
If yes, do you know where I can buy a TDA1541A DAC today?
I prefer something already built, if possible..
Indeed I read good things about TDA1541A,
it seems that the TDA1541A chip has 4 versions:
- TDA1541A
- TDA1541A R1
- TDA1541A S1
- TDA1541A S2
and the last 2 (S1, S2) are the best out of them.
Is that correct in your opinion too?
If yes, do you know where I can buy a TDA1541A DAC today?
I prefer something already built, if possible..
This TDA1541A DAC is designed by Pedja Rogic who used to be very active on DIYA : Online store – Audial
There is a PC-based sub-forum here on DIYA as well. Mostly deals with soundcards, methinks.
Anyway, no multibit is worth the hassle ... even if you like DIY projects.
Go with a modern delta-sigma (AKM, TI, etc). They really have exceeded the performance of any multibit ASIC.
As far as discrete multibits ... go ahead if you're super bored with plenty o' time to kill.
Here is a Taobao store with a modular DAC which looks to give many choices of multibit DAC chip. I'm not hereby endorsing the design or the SQ but it looks interesting and its relatively affordable : Arbiter PCM63 I2S 192Khz24Bit???Can communicate in Englis-???
Then if you've no objection to having valves inside, there's the Lite DAC-72 which uses PCM1702, a very well regarded multibit chip (Taobao) : LITE ?? DAC-72 ??? PCM1702 ??*2? ?????-???
Then if you've no objection to having valves inside, there's the Lite DAC-72 which uses PCM1702, a very well regarded multibit chip (Taobao) : LITE ?? DAC-72 ??? PCM1702 ??*2? ?????-???
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A 1900€ DAC? Quite expensive.. Compare that to the 25$ TDA1387 that I liked so much 🙂
Anyway that's not a price that I would pay for a DAC..
They look nice, but is there maybe a USB Powered DAC product with the above mentioned chips?
Something small and similar to the TDA1387: a simple box that has USB input, and 2xRCA output.. Without the mess of supplying wall power..
abraxalito, what do you think about this?
Regardingh myself, I should mention that I have no need for hi bitrate or anything like that, what I do need is the sound to be melodic and nice to listen too. Different DACs simply give a different sound, Some are more enjoying and others are less..
I tested almost 10 different DACs till I found the TDA1387 that I liked. Most of them were Delta-Sigma.. And most of them I did not like..
You didn't specify a price range so I included it anyway. Commercial DACs based on TDA1541A are niche items since the chip's been out of production for so long hence they're going to be boutique-priced.
I'm experimenting on making one based on my PhiDAC board. Won't be as small as that one but should sound better - partly because it has passive filtering and active I/V, partly because its regenerating the USB bus voltage rather than using it directly 😀 If you're interested, drop me a PM.
I don't take it at all seriously 😀
So a nice, USB powered TDA1541A DAC, for a sane price, is a dream that I will not be able to fulfil?
Damn.. 🙂
Well the physical size is something that I am flexible on.
But USB Powered is an advantage that is nice to keep.
Will send you a PM.
I think its possible if you want it badly enough. Checking on Taobao there are a few mains powered TDA1541A DACs with USB inputs. For example : hifi??DAC???TDA1541A ????I2S??USB????DSD384K-???
Starting out with one of these, you'd need to ditch the mains transformer and design (or have someone else design) a power supply which can be fed from USB bus power. Nowadays USB3.0 allows up to 900mA so there should just be enough power available to do this, even though the TDA1541A and SAA7220 together suck about 2W.
Thank you abraxalito. Look interesting.
I have to admit that I do wonder if the TDA1541A chip they use is real and not a fake, since as you mention, those are old chips, not being manufactured anymore.
I am checking now ready-made DAC products based on PCM1794, on eBay, for some reason, all of them require AC Power. I wonder why they need AC Power and cannot work with the USB Power..
Example1: Assembled SA9023+PCM1794 Decoder Board DAC Kit Decoder DAC Sound Card | eBay
Example2: NEW HiFi PCM1794 DAC module decoder module 192k 24bit | eBay
Example3: PCM1794+WM8805+NE5534+AD827 DAC decoding board | eBay
Oh.. Tiny detail:
It seems that the PCM1794 is SingleBit and not MultiBit.. (it is Current Out tho) So I should focus on PCM1702/PCM1704 like weissi wrote.. Anyone heard the SingleBit PCM1794 and can say what was his impression?
I have to admit that I do wonder if the TDA1541A chip they use is real and not a fake, since as you mention, those are old chips, not being manufactured anymore.
I am checking now ready-made DAC products based on PCM1794, on eBay, for some reason, all of them require AC Power. I wonder why they need AC Power and cannot work with the USB Power..
Example1: Assembled SA9023+PCM1794 Decoder Board DAC Kit Decoder DAC Sound Card | eBay
Example2: NEW HiFi PCM1794 DAC module decoder module 192k 24bit | eBay
Example3: PCM1794+WM8805+NE5534+AD827 DAC decoding board | eBay
Oh.. Tiny detail:
It seems that the PCM1794 is SingleBit and not MultiBit.. (it is Current Out tho) So I should focus on PCM1702/PCM1704 like weissi wrote.. Anyone heard the SingleBit PCM1794 and can say what was his impression?
I'd recommend doing the first steps with some PCM56/PCM58 or AD1860. They are relatively easy to apply in combination with the JLsounds USB Interface - NON-Oversampling of course, in case we're not talking about a another approach that is oversampling/filtering within e.g. a Foobar2000 plugin. Basically, your PC is used to upsample with very good technical ratings. That fact also helps a little bit regarding the signal roll-off at higher frequencies that are still within the audible range. This all would apply to a TDA1541A solution, but this chip is more "complicated" to implement rather than the two before-mentioned.
I see. Thank you for the tips. Do you maybe have a link to a place that sells PCM56/PCM58/AD1860?
I prefer a built product if possible, but if not, a kit will be good too..
I prefer a built product if possible, but if not, a kit will be good too..
Thank you thuanth43.
Unfortunately half of the things there are Out of Stock, and in general it seems like quite an expensive webstore.. Maybe there are other alternative places to buy? (either kits or ready-made PCBs)
Unfortunately half of the things there are Out of Stock, and in general it seems like quite an expensive webstore.. Maybe there are other alternative places to buy? (either kits or ready-made PCBs)
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It is not so simple with a modern delta-sigma. You must know how to deal with the jitter, how to deal with the power supply, and all that several times better than with a multibit. And finally you will find out, that the implemented digital filter in a delta-sigma chip will ruin the whole effort. That's why many professionals do they superwork with the design of their own digital filters (where one makes the sound more or less digital, and the fidelity of the sound they compare with a multibit in NOS 😀 ). Go with a modern delta-sigma only if you listen to the sound with the measuring instrument and not with the ears. Even the amateur can make a better sound with the "resistant crap" multibit than many claimed delta-sigma professionals.
You can do much more. You can make a simple multibit and then spend years by overcoming the multibit with a delta-sigma. But do it right - do not do this comparison: Multibit with bad I/V, vs., D/S with good I/V ... as many did and then claimed that multibits are not suitable
Make it fair and compare them with the same I/V.Thank you miro1360
BTW I really like the first sentence you wrote in the easyDAC thread:
I wrote exactly the same, a few post ago in this thread. Can you please also mention some places for buying MultiBit DACs today in 2019?
BTW I really like the first sentence you wrote in the easyDAC thread:
🙂
I wrote exactly the same, a few post ago in this thread. Can you please also mention some places for buying MultiBit DACs today in 2019?
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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that so many projects based on modern S-D chips devote substantial effort towards bypassing the on-chip additional features provided? No matter which chip is being used the digital upsampling filter has to be thrown out and replaced with something better externally. Then if the chip is ESS, the internal SRC has to be switched off and even (if I understand correctly) various internal modulators need to be routed around and for best results, only DSD fed in from an external DSD-generating chip.
So efforts to get the best SQ from S-D chips seem always to involve finding ways to defeat internal stuff, not simply making the external support circuits the best they can be. To me this is like starting any design from square -1, rather than square 0.
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