Looking for recommendation for iMac 2017->USB or Thunderbolt->Ou to External sound ca
I have iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017).
It does not have TOSLink output.
I have external device which gets the output from iMac
and plays music through TOSLink. This used to work with my previous iMac
and I need it for my current one.
TV 200 User Manual BKLT0210-01-EE-XX.indd Starkey Laboratories Inc
As you can see there is a TOSLink input which normally should come from
iMac.
I purchased but returned back to Amazon Soundblaster G5. Reason - sometimes I can see
it in my iMac, sometimes do not see it. And sometimes there is a sound, sometimes - not.
I had it for 2 days but understood one important thing.
I did used Steinberg Cubase Pro 10 tp test for music production and configured the output to be G5 with DS Clock (for TOS Link),
configured Format to 96kHz.
I know nobody can hear at this range but I know about antialiasing. So I opened one of my Synth Plugin to test.
From what is do understand Cubase Pro would use the external sound card in this case. What happened
(While G5 was working) the sound was brilliant. Absolutely no comparison with the internal iMac card which
showed 44.1Khz max sampling rate. I believe it is not only the sampling rate but still it was a factor.
But because G5 connectivity I returned it back t Amazon for refund today.
So SoundBlaster is more for gaming and I was thinking if there is more professional
sound card with Output from iMac as USB or Thunderbolt
Output from the external sound card to TOSLink or S/PDIF.
Sound card which to be more appropriate for music. I say sound card probably more appropriate
is to say DAC? Please shed some light to understand how this is working actually.
So you guys which are more experienced - could you please help me to find the best solution for my situation?
Thank you!
I have iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017).
It does not have TOSLink output.
I have external device which gets the output from iMac
and plays music through TOSLink. This used to work with my previous iMac
and I need it for my current one.
TV 200 User Manual BKLT0210-01-EE-XX.indd Starkey Laboratories Inc
As you can see there is a TOSLink input which normally should come from
iMac.
I purchased but returned back to Amazon Soundblaster G5. Reason - sometimes I can see
it in my iMac, sometimes do not see it. And sometimes there is a sound, sometimes - not.
I had it for 2 days but understood one important thing.
I did used Steinberg Cubase Pro 10 tp test for music production and configured the output to be G5 with DS Clock (for TOS Link),
configured Format to 96kHz.
I know nobody can hear at this range but I know about antialiasing. So I opened one of my Synth Plugin to test.
From what is do understand Cubase Pro would use the external sound card in this case. What happened
(While G5 was working) the sound was brilliant. Absolutely no comparison with the internal iMac card which
showed 44.1Khz max sampling rate. I believe it is not only the sampling rate but still it was a factor.
But because G5 connectivity I returned it back t Amazon for refund today.
So SoundBlaster is more for gaming and I was thinking if there is more professional
sound card with Output from iMac as USB or Thunderbolt
Output from the external sound card to TOSLink or S/PDIF.
Sound card which to be more appropriate for music. I say sound card probably more appropriate
is to say DAC? Please shed some light to understand how this is working actually.
So you guys which are more experienced - could you please help me to find the best solution for my situation?
Thank you!
Macs generally do have a TOSLINK output, at least they used to. It was built into the headphone jack. There is an adapter that plugs into the headphone jack to connect up a TOSLINK cable. Something like this: Amazon.com: Toslink Adapter,CableCreation [2-Pack] Toslink Female to Toslink Mini Male Adapter for Chromecast Audio,iMac,Mac Pro&More,Black: Electronics
The latest model I described do not has any and this is the reason Ii post the question.
I dunno, I've used several M-Audio and Behringer USB sound cards with my Mac Powerbook. It has only two USB-C ports. But you need only output so it seems like any of the USB to optical/SPDIF adapters found on eBay and Amazon should do the trick with default drivers.
Do you need 5.1 surround, or is sterei enough.
Do you need 5.1 surround, or is sterei enough.
Do you only want playback, which requires a dac, or do you want to record too? To record you would need an ADC (A/D) too. Sometimes it might be called a recording interface.
Also, what sound quality to you need? Or how much are you willing to spend to get good sound quality? For mixing music, often people want professional or near-professional sound quality. Maybe you don't need something that good? Or maybe cost is the limiting factor?
Also, what sound quality to you need? Or how much are you willing to spend to get good sound quality? For mixing music, often people want professional or near-professional sound quality. Maybe you don't need something that good? Or maybe cost is the limiting factor?
These are good questions.
So in order of priorities:
1) I generate my own music inside the computer from synthesizers. I don't record from outside sources. So the I do generate from synths I mentioned there is noticeable hissing. So I investigated and decided to order this SoundBlaster G5. I did configured it to 96Khz sampling rate and tested with my synths using my MIDI files. That is I mentioned there is not this hissing and the sound was very clean. Indeed I listened from the TOSlink output connect to SurfLink device I described. But still I believe the DAC and the high sampling rate was the cause.
2) I researched further and see that the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) is better for music. From what Understand it is better than USB 3. So if my iMac has USB-C, better use this output.
3) For listening I need to feed the output signal to SurfLink. Listening is just for monitoring, more important is recording from the synth to AIFF file with maximum quality. And as i see if SurfLink is feed with S/PDIF the quality would be better than if I use TOSlink.
4) MFiT
Saving to AIFF file with 32bit/192Khz is important because in step 2 I get all these AIFF files and mix them to the final output and I don't want during the mixing to get aliasing. I am registered official Mastered For iTunes (MFiT) Provider. An ideal master will have 24-bit 96kHz resolution. When i submit Apple converts it itself to a lower rates where I do not have control. But my task is to submit the maximum quality.
https://images.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/docs/mastered_for_itunes.pdf
For now i will submit only my own music.
I don't know about a budget. I need to see what is possible.
So in order of priorities:
1) I generate my own music inside the computer from synthesizers. I don't record from outside sources. So the I do generate from synths I mentioned there is noticeable hissing. So I investigated and decided to order this SoundBlaster G5. I did configured it to 96Khz sampling rate and tested with my synths using my MIDI files. That is I mentioned there is not this hissing and the sound was very clean. Indeed I listened from the TOSlink output connect to SurfLink device I described. But still I believe the DAC and the high sampling rate was the cause.
2) I researched further and see that the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) is better for music. From what Understand it is better than USB 3. So if my iMac has USB-C, better use this output.
3) For listening I need to feed the output signal to SurfLink. Listening is just for monitoring, more important is recording from the synth to AIFF file with maximum quality. And as i see if SurfLink is feed with S/PDIF the quality would be better than if I use TOSlink.
4) MFiT
Saving to AIFF file with 32bit/192Khz is important because in step 2 I get all these AIFF files and mix them to the final output and I don't want during the mixing to get aliasing. I am registered official Mastered For iTunes (MFiT) Provider. An ideal master will have 24-bit 96kHz resolution. When i submit Apple converts it itself to a lower rates where I do not have control. But my task is to submit the maximum quality.
https://images.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/docs/mastered_for_itunes.pdf
For now i will submit only my own music.
I don't know about a budget. I need to see what is possible.
Isn't Surflink for hearing aids? I don't understand why you would need that. Running through Surflink will probably hurt sound quality, so it should be avoided if possible.
If you run your projects in cubase at 96kHz, and mix down to 96kHz 32-bit AIFF files inside your Mac there will be no aliasing and you will have maximum quality.
Regarding USB-3 or Thunderbolt, it makes no difference to sound quality at all.
Regarding the ultimate sound quality you get on iTunes, it is important to leave a few dB of headroom and do not over compress your mixes. If you do it will sound worse after iTunes does their processing.
Maybe something else to understand is that if you Mac system is configured to output 44.1kHz, all audio being played back through the Mac will be converted to 44.1kHz as it is being played. However, files recorded at 96kHz are not changed by that. They would still sound good and play at 96kHz if the soundcard connected to the Mac is able to play at 96kHz, and the Mac OS is configured to play at 96kHz.
If you run your projects in cubase at 96kHz, and mix down to 96kHz 32-bit AIFF files inside your Mac there will be no aliasing and you will have maximum quality.
Regarding USB-3 or Thunderbolt, it makes no difference to sound quality at all.
Regarding the ultimate sound quality you get on iTunes, it is important to leave a few dB of headroom and do not over compress your mixes. If you do it will sound worse after iTunes does their processing.
Maybe something else to understand is that if you Mac system is configured to output 44.1kHz, all audio being played back through the Mac will be converted to 44.1kHz as it is being played. However, files recorded at 96kHz are not changed by that. They would still sound good and play at 96kHz if the soundcard connected to the Mac is able to play at 96kHz, and the Mac OS is configured to play at 96kHz.
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i suppose then I only need a way to output a signal in TOSLink or S/PDIF format to feed SurfLink, like what my previous iMac has. Yes it is for hearing aids. I have somebody here who needs that.
There is no way to know the quality of the iMac internal DAC though.
There is no way to know the quality of the iMac internal DAC though.
I am very Mac oriented. I have tended to prefer FireWire (now Thunderbolt) over USB. Getting USB to do Music well is not near as easy as with FireWire/Thunderbolt.
If you need ADC/DAC you can actually buy a Thnderbolt DAC. If you are looking for a FireWire/Thunderbolt DAC they are very scarce (and not cheap).
I never used toslink or SPDIF. My most recent DAC is a Schitt Gungnir (multiunit/R-R version). The designer does not like USB but it has been implemented because that is where the market is. They keep reving their USB input, now at their V5 (the 1st he was really happy with), but have just come up with their own USB implementation which is claimed to be even better.
My last 2 DACs were semiPro ADC/DACs, an Edirol, then a TC Sounds.
All of these DACs do 24/192 which is as low as i’ll go. Do note that 32 bit is only a convenience, the best real world DACs can only resolve 20-21 bits.
If you use FireWire/Thunderbolt, you need a USB druive to store the music on, if a USB DAC you need a FireWire/Thunderbolt drive. An SSD for the system is highly reommended.
dave
If you need ADC/DAC you can actually buy a Thnderbolt DAC. If you are looking for a FireWire/Thunderbolt DAC they are very scarce (and not cheap).
I never used toslink or SPDIF. My most recent DAC is a Schitt Gungnir (multiunit/R-R version). The designer does not like USB but it has been implemented because that is where the market is. They keep reving their USB input, now at their V5 (the 1st he was really happy with), but have just come up with their own USB implementation which is claimed to be even better.
My last 2 DACs were semiPro ADC/DACs, an Edirol, then a TC Sounds.
All of these DACs do 24/192 which is as low as i’ll go. Do note that 32 bit is only a convenience, the best real world DACs can only resolve 20-21 bits.
If you use FireWire/Thunderbolt, you need a USB druive to store the music on, if a USB DAC you need a FireWire/Thunderbolt drive. An SSD for the system is highly reommended.
dave
It may not be clear, but USB-C connectors are also Thunderbolt, PCIe, and DisplayPort.
Althou it may have the same connectors, a USB-C cable is not the same as a Thunderbolt cable.
I found that a “nice” FireWire cable made a difference with the 2 FireWire DACs, the similar, “nice” cable for USB did not seem to.
dave
Althou it may have the same connectors, a USB-C cable is not the same as a Thunderbolt cable.
I found that a “nice” FireWire cable made a difference with the 2 FireWire DACs, the similar, “nice” cable for USB did not seem to.
dave
thunderbolt 3 or USB-C turned out to be too expensive.
Most important requirement was the Audio Interface to has output toslink or S/PDIF.
Toslink turns out no good fo audio and finally the choice was iMac->USB->AudioAdapter->S/PDIF as output.
this was on good deal today:
Amazon.com: PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface: Musical Instruments
PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface
So the next task is to choose a good S/PDIF coaxial cable. What to choose?
Most important requirement was the Audio Interface to has output toslink or S/PDIF.
Toslink turns out no good fo audio and finally the choice was iMac->USB->AudioAdapter->S/PDIF as output.
this was on good deal today:
Amazon.com: PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface: Musical Instruments
PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface
So the next task is to choose a good S/PDIF coaxial cable. What to choose?
Any 75-ohm SPDIF cable should be okay. Probably preferable to keep the length no longer than needed, is all. Amazon Basics should be fine: Amazon.com: AmazonBasics Digital Audio Coaxial Cable - 4 Feet: Musical Instruments
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The Well-Tempered Computer
basically one is good on one side, the other on the other side.
The problem with TosLink is that it is S/PDIF, which inherently adds jitter. The faster the rise time of the data link, the less jitter gets added. TosLink is pretty slow and the rise times are slow enough that it can barely handle the data rates for S/PDIF. So there is more jitter added than with a coaxial cable. Therefore TosLink is better than coax in one way and worse in another.
I purchased
Amazon.com: PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface: Musical Instruments
PreSonus Studio 1810 18x8, 192 kHz, USB 2.0 Audio Interface
which has SPDIF coaxial out. TOSlink based devices for audio are rare and expensive anyway.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Personally, I like the Focusrite gear. I have an older Saffire PRO 24 that I use for speaker measurements. It has both S/PDIF and TOSLINK. Their newer Scarlett series is well spec'ed as well.
Tom
Personally, I like the Focusrite gear. I have an older Saffire PRO 24 that I use for speaker measurements. It has both S/PDIF and TOSLINK. Their newer Scarlett series is well spec'ed as well.
Tom
RME proved that USB can be equally good as Firewire. If one has the money, RME is the way to go with audio interfaces.
RME does have a good reputation. However, there is RME ADI-2 here which goes for about $950 for 2-in, 2-out. No USB, SPDIF or TOSLINK I/O only.
On the other hand, I rather extensively modified a $39 ebay dac that now has maybe $250 with of stuff in it. It can take USB, TOSLINK, SPDIF, AES, and I2S inputs, and it really totally outperforms the RME dac in the ADI-2. Destroys it, might be more like it. The RME dac sounds like junk in comparison, and I truly am not exaggerating either. However, and there is always a catch, right? However, it is a whole lot of work to modify the cheap $39 dac to make it as good as it is now.
Getting back to the RME ADI-2, in some ways it is disappointing, but then again it measures pretty well. I guess its okay for the money.
On the other hand, I rather extensively modified a $39 ebay dac that now has maybe $250 with of stuff in it. It can take USB, TOSLINK, SPDIF, AES, and I2S inputs, and it really totally outperforms the RME dac in the ADI-2. Destroys it, might be more like it. The RME dac sounds like junk in comparison, and I truly am not exaggerating either. However, and there is always a catch, right? However, it is a whole lot of work to modify the cheap $39 dac to make it as good as it is now.
Getting back to the RME ADI-2, in some ways it is disappointing, but then again it measures pretty well. I guess its okay for the money.
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Well, in the US you pay a hefty premium to all that RME stuff 
And I agree, just for listening to music most of the cheap chinese USB DACs best those pro interfaces.
And I agree, just for listening to music most of the cheap chinese USB DACs best those pro interfaces.
Just be careful of the cheap Chinese DACs. I've used and measured cheap DACs based on CMedia codec chips and they were not very good. Lots of noise, distortion and sidebands caused by jitter. They didn't sound horrible, but certainly not as good as you'd want.
The CMedia chips are ubiquitous.
The CMedia chips are ubiquitous.
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