There are plenty of other arguments for veganism. For example, if you feed animals with 10kg of vegetable protein then you generally get back around 1kg of animal protein. This is a major contributing factor to the destruction of the rain forest in Brazil and elsewhere, as the forests are cleared (often illegally) for the production of soya protein as animal feed and for the grazing of livestock. It is also why vegans need much less land to be fed, around one tenth to one thirtieth of the land that someone consuming animal products needs. It seems madness to me that in a world which has difficulty feeding itself, affluent countries import large quantities of animal feed from developing countries.
The production of animal products uses huge amounts of resources such as oil and water, in a world struggling with pollution, global warming and dwindling resources. Additionally, huge amounts of methane are released by cattle into the atmosphere, and methane is, I believe, worse for global warming than the carbon dioxide released by our excessive burning of fossil fuels.
I must admit that I am not optimistic vis a vis the medium-term prospects for the survival of humanity. We are gobbling up finite resources at an alarming rate, and polluting the world like never before. There is a small chink of light in the shape of the increase in the number of vegans in the UK and elsewhere over the last ten years or so, but we are up against vested interests. Profit might make the world go round today, but the party can't go on for ever.
Free yourself from those vested interests - become a vegan!
The production of animal products uses huge amounts of resources such as oil and water, in a world struggling with pollution, global warming and dwindling resources. Additionally, huge amounts of methane are released by cattle into the atmosphere, and methane is, I believe, worse for global warming than the carbon dioxide released by our excessive burning of fossil fuels.
I must admit that I am not optimistic vis a vis the medium-term prospects for the survival of humanity. We are gobbling up finite resources at an alarming rate, and polluting the world like never before. There is a small chink of light in the shape of the increase in the number of vegans in the UK and elsewhere over the last ten years or so, but we are up against vested interests. Profit might make the world go round today, but the party can't go on for ever.
Free yourself from those vested interests - become a vegan!
Has anyone here eaten beef from a cow that lived out it's life naturally, I have, in this case left out to graze and make compost? Not something of commercial value but is there a moral conundrum?
So don't drink milk.
Most beef production is not the by- product of the dairy industry.Dairy bred steers are not slaughtered at an early age but usually at around 2.5 years age and grass fedMost beef comes from cows grazing outdoors and rearing their calves till their natural weaning age [around 9 months].Just about all sheep and goat meat is free range pasture fed.You can buy free range/grass fed chicken,beef and pork.Organic if you want too.
Most farm animals live very good lives and then they die a quick death.It is the wild animals that I feel sorry for.They are far more likely to face hunger, disease,being eaten alive by a predator and even if they survive all that a slow and lingering death with crows coming to peck their eye out some time before they finally die.Nature is very cruel.
Exactly! Predator and prey. Food chains and food webs.
All part of the grand cosmic plan for life on this planet!
This is the kind of counterproductive self righteous attitude I mean. There is nothing wrong with people who have made a different ethical decision than you
Old cows are used for beef.The prime cuts are typically cryovacced and sold as cheaper beef or meat suitable for slow cooking and the rest is used for ground/minced beef and hamburger patties.The hide used for leather and left over bits which are used to make organic fertilisers [to grow the vegan's vegetables].
It appears that way to us because we can't help but judge nature (BTW can you point to "nature") by the ethical standards and morals we choose. It isn't cruel, it just is what it is.
Which is exactly my point about a predatory omnivorous species like ourselves eating meat.It is just what is and completely natural.It cannot have any ethical implications.
Here is a great Australian /New Zealand term for vegans-WOWSERS.
There's an interesting discussion on the perception of intelligence in animals in that reference SJ.
I remember a fellow beer drinker insisting that a fish is not an animal. He could not be pursuaded otherwise. What price human intelligence?
To many people the term animal means a furry mammal. The same people probably think that whales and dolphins are fish.
Deep philisophical discussions about speciesism in a bar - forget it!
I remember a fellow beer drinker insisting that a fish is not an animal. He could not be pursuaded otherwise. What price human intelligence?
To many people the term animal means a furry mammal. The same people probably think that whales and dolphins are fish.
Deep philisophical discussions about speciesism in a bar - forget it!
True, there is no right or wrong but only personal opinions based on their own belief system - but there is cause and effect, and you would be hard pressed to suggest that common farming practices are not damaging to the environment.
Having said that I dont think human activities are the only contributor to global warming, the earth goes through natural cold to hot cycles which has become evident from drilling cores in ice sheets in the Antarctic.
All an individual can do is be conscious of their own actions - and I would encourage anyone to look into it yourself and make your own conclusions. Living in the information age we have a massive amount right at our fingertips.
'No life' is the norm. I didn't have one for 13.8 billion years before I was born!
Granted, it might sound like nonsense, in a way it is, but I still think it's a philosophical point that has value as in the paper Earl linked to earlier : The Repugnant Conclusion (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Yes, a small vocal minority skews the perception of the larger group.
My friends often forget that I don't eat meat. Since I don't make a big deal about it at every meal it doesn't get remembered.
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