My point above stands. I've been trying to read but If I don't understand something like this after 3 reads I won't understand it after 50. Every time I try to ask a question so I can understand what I'm reading clearer I am getting why too much response.
That is the nature of forums like this Will.
Everyone is trying to help in their own way.
Perhaps you should now stop asking new questions and take time to research and assimilate the information which has already been presented to you.
So the community is not telling you what you hope to hear and they are rude? Your asking questions thinking you know the answer and complaining that you don't understand. An example is one of your first ideas that your speakers clip. Speakers do not clip amplifies clip, look it up. Learn more then come back and ask as if you don't know. Again see my signature.
Hay Will I may have found where some of the confusion is coming from. The following statement was found on the MTX website.
"Clipping solutions; The solution to short and long term amplifier clipping due to insufficient power available to reach the desired volume level is to choose speakers that can reproduce the volumes desired."
This is the way you fix things by selling what you have.
Another failure at 14 you will not make at 24.
"Clipping solutions; The solution to short and long term amplifier clipping due to insufficient power available to reach the desired volume level is to choose speakers that can reproduce the volumes desired."
This is the way you fix things by selling what you have.
Another failure at 14 you will not make at 24.
That is very good advice.
Will,
I think it is awesome that you want to take on a project like this. It's great to see someone who wants to understand the principals of loudspeaker design hands on, and I hope you end up with a set of speakers that you are really happy with.
That being said, there have been a time or two in this thread where you have stated that you found a reply confusing. Now that's not a bad thing, we've all been there (especially starting out), but it makes me think of my first speaker project; it was a three-way design similar to what you are looking to build, and like you, I was doing the whole thing myself from the ground up. I had a limited measurement and modeling tool set, and it took me many weeks of research, listening, reading, and learning, and trial and error to finally end up at a finished set of speakers. They sounded quite bad. So I spent some more time figuring out why they sounded bad and how to fix them, and finally arrived at at fix. That sounded bad too.
I was frustrated at that point, so they went largely unused for many years, until one afternoon a few years ago, I decided to revisit that project. With a much better tool set and a whole lot more experience and understanding, I determined what needed to change and how to make that change, and that afternoon the changes had been made and the speakers now sound fantastic (relatively speaking, anyway).
My point is this: having the right tools, knowing how to use them, and most importantly, having some understanding of the relevant and related topics can be the difference between being happy with a project, and being fed up with one.
I'm sure that this is a project that you can handle and can have a lot of fun doing, and I know you want this to be a hands on learning experience and you want the design to be your own, but if you want to build the speakers sooner than later, I'd suggest building a proven design (like the EconoWave), you will learn a lot, especially if you try to come to understand the why behind the design choices that went into it. But if you really want to understand how to design loudspeakers, focus on that for now. Learn how to use the tools that are necessary to doing that, learn the whys behind the design choices and what you make will be a lot more satisfying.
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Long learning curves can look like a flat line in the short term, and until you're willing to accept that you must start with first principles, you'll be chasing your tail and throwing good money and time away.
The advice has been offered to start with a well proven kit/design that approximates what you think you want, and gain the experience in actually fabricating something first - the "how" ; then study the various resources suggested to learn the "why". Some of the voices in this chorus have decades of builds under our belts, and may lose patience with someone not willing to listen to the answers given.
The advice has been offered to start with a well proven kit/design that approximates what you think you want, and gain the experience in actually fabricating something first - the "how" ; then study the various resources suggested to learn the "why". Some of the voices in this chorus have decades of builds under our belts, and may lose patience with someone not willing to listen to the answers given.
From what I've read and heard and seen examples from clipping is when the woofers are moving in ways that they shouldn't but I am not trying to talk about this, just saying that the 8" drivers can't produce the volume I want. Also I'm not currently using an amp, I'm using a mixer.
Again you are assuming immaturity and impatience from me. What you wrote was rude and I have been trying to learn. If finding info about all this stuff was easy then I wouldn't be here. I was trying to read things and learn but some things I could not find answers to.
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=====better 12" midrange
-The $130 Eminence 12" DELTA PRO-12A is an excellent midrange when used with a waveguide.
-The 12" aluminum cone Dayton DAS315 can be used as $75 ported box woofers -F3=32Hz.
----Putting two 8-ohm (Re~6.3ohms) woofers in parallel, plus the resistance of the crossover inductor = 4-ohm amplifier load.
----Putting two 4-ohm (Re~3.2ohms) woofers in series, plus the resistance of the crossover inductor = 8-ohm amplifier load.
======
The DS315-PaperCone datasheet shows that this 12" woofer SPL can reach over 1kHz without any cone breakup in the 1100-1300Hz required for a crossover to the waveguide.
Earl Geddes published a pdf on controlled directivity you can download where he explains that for a 90-degree waveguide, you want to select a woofer/midwoofer with -3db to -4db difference between the measured on-axis and measured 90-degree polar response at the crossover freq. The DS315-Paper meets this requirement.
Attachments
"clipping is when woofers are moving in ways that they shouldn't"
"Also I'm not currently using an amp, I'm using a mixer"
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I Give up
"Also I'm not currently using an amp, I'm using a mixer"
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I Give up
I was putting in numbers to an excel box size calculator. Should I do that for the woofers you suggested? And I was told I should stick with the same brand for all my drivers...
EDIT: turns out I was putting in numbers for that woofer anyway, I will finish that up and see what I get. (I can't find "Series R" number...)
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What ever the hell clipping is it doesn't matter, the 8" drivers can handle the volume I want end of story!!! I do not have an amp hooked up to my studio monitors, I have a pyle 8 channel mixer hooked up to them. Again with the unnecessary rudeness.
Mixing "trusted" brands is common for great sound at low cost. Study the specs on each datasheet.
#1 look for proven designs with both measurements and several positive reviews. You will find a few proven diy kits for both the Eminence 12" DELTA PRO-12A and Dayton 12" DS315/DAS315 drivers.
I don't know how I will take the info from the kits and figure out how the numbers work because I thought a program was necessary. I am currently using UniBox with the dayton 12" woofers but some of the abbreviations don't match up with what is on parts express.
Also how do I put in available power if I don't know what amp I'm going to have? I thought I decide the amp I get after I have info about the enclosure...
Will, just ignore any posts that aren't helpful. They are not worth the frustration.
Stepping back and taking a little time to read (and maybe re-read) and process info and links provided so far is probably what you need right now. Especially if you are feeling confused and/or frustrated.
Stepping back and taking a little time to read (and maybe re-read) and process info and links provided so far is probably what you need right now. Especially if you are feeling confused and/or frustrated.
Great, you've got Unibox running!!🙂
The only parameter that I know of that doesn't match up from PE is the Vas which PE lists in Imperial. Open up their spec sheet and you should find it listed in metric.
Keep increasing the power until xmax reaches its limits. That will let you know how much power you will need for that driver.
Still have questions? Post a screen shot showing us what it is that's befuddling you and our answers can be more specific to the problem.
How do I attach an image from my pc?
I circled the things I don't understand or I don't know how to get on PE
I circled the things I don't understand or I don't know how to get on PE
Usually I would use the Print Screen button to save the on screen image and then paste that into MS Paint. Manipulate the pic as desired, save it as a jpeg or gif and then attach that to your post. To attach, "Go Advanced" and then use the paper clip symbol.
Box first!
You need the drivers in the box to take the measurements that you use to design the crossover.
To return to a previous question you asked, SPL is sound pressure level, which in everyday terms basically means volume.
Also, so far you’ve been working on the assumption that you’re going to build passive speakers. I think you’ll gain a lot more knowledge and be able to refine things a lot more cheaply and easily if you attempt an active speaker to begin with.
If you’re not sure what I’m talking about, google “active vs passive speaker”, and then “active vs passive crossover”.
Also, so far you’ve been working on the assumption that you’re going to build passive speakers. I think you’ll gain a lot more knowledge and be able to refine things a lot more cheaply and easily if you attempt an active speaker to begin with.
If you’re not sure what I’m talking about, google “active vs passive speaker”, and then “active vs passive crossover”.
There are also some other things. Is there a page I can go and learn about all this stuff because typing in 2 letter abbreviations into google won't do anything. I also can't find any UniBox tutorials.
Whenever I try to type in the red it says it is protected by password even though I need to change the numbers there, they are against what PE says!!
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