What is the best/accurate software to use to design passive speaker crossover networks, and generate frequency, phase, waterfall, and impedence plots?
1. X-Over 3 Pro
2. Sound Eas v.22
3. CLIO
4. LspCAD
5. Others?...
I'd like to be able to simulate parallel, series networks. Be able to add notch, impedence linearizing networks, zobel filters, etc.
It would be nice to see how a resistor affect the FR or SPL in a series tweeter circuit, or substitute a different woofer in a 3-way network, or how a RC tank circuit across a coil may alter FR, etc.
I've made several DIY speakers, but have either paid for simulations, or used existing designs online.
Many Thanks
1. X-Over 3 Pro
2. Sound Eas v.22
3. CLIO
4. LspCAD
5. Others?...
I'd like to be able to simulate parallel, series networks. Be able to add notch, impedence linearizing networks, zobel filters, etc.
It would be nice to see how a resistor affect the FR or SPL in a series tweeter circuit, or substitute a different woofer in a 3-way network, or how a RC tank circuit across a coil may alter FR, etc.
I've made several DIY speakers, but have either paid for simulations, or used existing designs online.
Many Thanks
My personal combination is OmniMic + DATS v 2.0 and XSim. First and last written by Bill Waslo. XSim is free. OmniMic + DATS available as a package deal from Parts Express:
Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 and DATS V2 Speaker Measurement Bundle
I bought X-Over Pro and getting it to work was an absolute nightmare. Once I did get X-Over Pro to work I found it even more difficult to use.
My current processs is: Use some free tool to do box simulation. Build box, put drivers in it. Simulate diffraction with The Edge. Add this to far/close mic speaker data.
Feed FRD/ZMA from OmniMic/Edge/DATS to XSim. Good to go.
XSim free crossover designer
Best,
Erik
Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 and DATS V2 Speaker Measurement Bundle
I bought X-Over Pro and getting it to work was an absolute nightmare. Once I did get X-Over Pro to work I found it even more difficult to use.
My current processs is: Use some free tool to do box simulation. Build box, put drivers in it. Simulate diffraction with The Edge. Add this to far/close mic speaker data.
Feed FRD/ZMA from OmniMic/Edge/DATS to XSim. Good to go.
XSim free crossover designer
Best,
Erik
Many thanks, Erik! Interesting that you build the box first, then do the simulation. Baffle geometry is so important in simplifying a crossover circuit, as diffraction can make things a nightmare, or at best turn a dream speaker into a mediocre one. "The Edge," is that a free standing software, or packaged with the Dayton product?
I would prefer to consider diffraction before a build, it can have a greater effect than changing response.. but when it (as in all sound output) needs to be taken into account, wouldn't measuring be easier?
With the exception of a CSD plot, most simulators will do all the things you suggest. Accuracy isn't normally an issue. Capabilities and ease of use are.
With the exception of a CSD plot, most simulators will do all the things you suggest. Accuracy isn't normally an issue. Capabilities and ease of use are.
Thanks AllenB! I'll certainly experiment to see how front baffle geometry influences FR. Looks interesting.
What I'm trying to do is to make a 200Hz, 2nd order, low pass section using the Scan-Speak 22W/8851T00 driver and substitute it into Troel's SBA 10 3-way speakers. The SBA midrange is the MW15P-8 and the tweeter is the TW29BN. The SS and SBA woofers are similar in SPL @ 88dB/W.
I'm guessing if these parts will work???
Source ---> series [L (6.8mH)] --- parallel [R( 1-Ohm)] -- [C (82uF)] ---> 22W/88521T00
You don't, as far as I know. You can give a driver a response and an impedance curve. FRD & ZMA files. A box simulator would use T/S parameters.
There is a long thread on XSim.
Ah, OK. Thanks! I have to wait until I buy the DATS kit in order to load in the .frd and .zma files. Just watched the video on it. Quite a powerful program.
It's good to have DATS for the coil/cap measurements too. 🙂
XSim relies on measured FR. It is not a box/diffraction simulator at all.
The Edge is a free, Windows based edge diffraction tool. I use it with a little spreadsheet magic if I really want to get complicated. For a basic 2-way, I do not. I measure everything in far field. Works much more simply.
Best,
E
XSim relies on measured FR. It is not a box/diffraction simulator at all.
The Edge is a free, Windows based edge diffraction tool. I use it with a little spreadsheet magic if I really want to get complicated. For a basic 2-way, I do not. I measure everything in far field. Works much more simply.
Best,
E
It is typically the third dimension that gives greater interest. Look for that which affects the response least, for starters.
It can be done manually, ie without such a program, if you need. Eg: you can trace from a screenshot using SPLTrace, you can output these files from a simulator, or you can write them by hand or your own custom program, they open in a text editor.
The limitation I don't like with most crossover simulators is that they are stuck in 2D.
Tracing includes zero box / baffle effects, and of course, may not be related to your actual drivers. Lots more prone to error and a lot more work I think.
Far better to measure the parts you got, and the box you built.
Best,
E
Far better to measure the parts you got, and the box you built.
Best,
E
At 200Hz in a 55 Liter ported cabinet, the 8" Scan-Speak 22W/8851T00 produces about 2db lower SPL than the 10" SB29NRX75-6. Probably acceptable if the speaker is close to a wall.
LR2 circuit at 200Hz for Scan-Speak 22W/8851T00 uses 12mH iron core inductor with low DCR, and 50uF capacitor. You can experiment with an LRC notch filter to flatten the 58 ohm resonance peak impedance at 30Hz. Note that the modest bass shelf port is tuned to 28Hz, and this will complicate the notch filter design.
Scan-Speak 22W/8851T00 in a 55-liter volume tuned to 28Hz for a modest bass shelf alignment requires a 3" vent (round both ends) 10.5" long
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VituixCAD, The Loudspeaker Simulation Tool by Kimmo Saunisto
If you plan on making turn-table polar measurements, VituixCAD is set up to integrate this data into a complete simulation: driver database, enclosure, diffraction, crossover, polar plots.
There is a free download version.
In what way ?
If you're referring to showing only what happens on one axis, VituixCAD solves that problem. Kimmo Saunisto did tremendous job and it's all free.
Software
OK. Speaker Workshop is open plan and and you can do various plot transformations. To me this is about finding the right plots to use before crossing which is important enough. It also allows EQ adjustments and so forth. There is also the not so well known 'xo', which will show polar plots while crossing, which is nice although perhaps not strictly necessary.
It's better than LspCAD that i use and it's free.
I'm a member on few forums that almost exclusively use Vituix.
I'm a member on few forums that almost exclusively use Vituix.
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Many Thanks, Linesource, for the calculation! I'm planning to place the 22W/8851T00 in a 40L ported cabinet to make a smaller footprint than 55L. Since I already have the 22W, mid, and Be tweeter, I thought I can make this speaker with 11in wide top and bottom cabinets.
VituixCAD looks amazing, both electronically and acoustically! It has a Diffraction Simulator, which will be very useful to calculate baffle step compensation, loss, nasties in FR. I'm going to look into this more carefully. Just wow!
Thank you Zvu, Pano, AllenB, fatmarly, Eriksquires, and Linesource for all chiming in with great ideas!
It's quite new software in this scene, freeware since 2016-09-11. Some users might prefer free form X/O schema and solver which are not (yet) included, but fortunately many other valuable features are already done. Author's (my) needs were met half a year ago, but project seems to continue. Nelder-Mead simplex solver is already added in the source package. One day we might see some way+axial+power+impedance optimizing mammoth... - or not 😀
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