Perhaps I missed it, but a very crucial and critical question was asked in the beginning, and doesn't seem to have been answered - WHY?
What is your application that you need such a high output tweeter. In most applications, there is no way the bass or mid drivers can reach these levels, which mean, you end up padding down the tweeter anyway.
The next reasonable question is - WHAT?
What kind of tweeter, how much space do you have to place it? Others have done a very good job of listing tweeters, but context would give a clearer picture to both the question and therefore the answer. The answer can never be better than the question. Without the framework of the rest of the speakers system, I don't see much value in any of the answers, it is all too random. Plus, BUDGET would establish the greatest context. There is no point in recommending $500 tweeters when the budget is $50. The second greatest and most important context, is the rest of the system and its application. High quality stereo is very different context than say a Disco or PA speaker. I don't think there is a real answer to the question without the context being there.
Next define HORN? Horns can be big, horns can be small. Without the context of the rest of the system, again, any answers mean nothing. What range to these 'Magic' horns have to cover? This is a horn tweeter, it seems no different than any other tweeter to me in terms of working it into any given application -
Morel CAT 378 (93dB, $65) - Morel CAT 378 1-1/8" Soft Dome Horn Tweeter 277-084
Here is a ribbon tweeter, Aurum Cantus G2Si (96dB, $139) - Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeter 276-400
In another context all together, here is a tweeter with 100dB output - Aurum Cantus G3 Ribbon Tweeter (100dB, $229) - Aurum Cantus G3 Ribbon Tweeter 276-412
There is another Aurm Cantus Ribbon with 102Db output, but it is not cheap -Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbon Tweeter (102dB, $539) Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbon Tweeter 276-420
As you can see, the field is wide open, without context, there are no real answers. Without a framework of context, application, and requirements, we are just making a list of random Tweeters.
Perhaps that is all you wanted.
Steve/bluewizard
What is your application that you need such a high output tweeter. In most applications, there is no way the bass or mid drivers can reach these levels, which mean, you end up padding down the tweeter anyway.
The next reasonable question is - WHAT?
What kind of tweeter, how much space do you have to place it? Others have done a very good job of listing tweeters, but context would give a clearer picture to both the question and therefore the answer. The answer can never be better than the question. Without the framework of the rest of the speakers system, I don't see much value in any of the answers, it is all too random. Plus, BUDGET would establish the greatest context. There is no point in recommending $500 tweeters when the budget is $50. The second greatest and most important context, is the rest of the system and its application. High quality stereo is very different context than say a Disco or PA speaker. I don't think there is a real answer to the question without the context being there.
Next define HORN? Horns can be big, horns can be small. Without the context of the rest of the system, again, any answers mean nothing. What range to these 'Magic' horns have to cover? This is a horn tweeter, it seems no different than any other tweeter to me in terms of working it into any given application -
Morel CAT 378 (93dB, $65) - Morel CAT 378 1-1/8" Soft Dome Horn Tweeter 277-084
Here is a ribbon tweeter, Aurum Cantus G2Si (96dB, $139) - Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeter 276-400
In another context all together, here is a tweeter with 100dB output - Aurum Cantus G3 Ribbon Tweeter (100dB, $229) - Aurum Cantus G3 Ribbon Tweeter 276-412
There is another Aurm Cantus Ribbon with 102Db output, but it is not cheap -Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbon Tweeter (102dB, $539) Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbon Tweeter 276-420
As you can see, the field is wide open, without context, there are no real answers. Without a framework of context, application, and requirements, we are just making a list of random Tweeters.
Perhaps that is all you wanted.
Steve/bluewizard
TL labs ??
never heard until now.
mean you this
Tonian Labs
Tonian Laboratories TL-R1 Tweeter Review By Jeff Rabin
or this
N26C pure ceramic dome Tweeter
Murata could be also of interest:
6moons audio reviews:muRata ES103A super tweeter
I haven't special application - I want to have an overview for the aim of information and an own survey.
Why high efficiency by dome tweeters?? This answer is very very easy: the higher the efficiency, the lower the unwanted power compression in the voice coil. Please note: the topic here is "dome tweeters" (no metal/titan), no AMT, no Ribbon and no compression driver as long as used with horn. Dome tweeters in the same kind as the pictures show by post 26 (phenol - or cloth dome diaphragm).
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Well, when is a horn a horn? The horn on the Morel CAT 378 is not a significantly large horn, and it fits in the same space as any common dome tweeter. The Aurum Cantus G2Si is a ribbon tweeter but it fits in the same space as a standard Dome Tweeter. What do you care about the composition as long as you get the result?
If a job is to be done, then you need the tool that does that job. For example, here is a small tweeter with 107dB output - PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Super Tweeter (107db, $35) - PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Tweeter 8 Ohm 294-2820
The Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter kicks out 111dB and fits in the space of a normal dome tweeter - Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter (11dB, $63) - Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter Black 264-450
I don't think one starts a design by saying, I want dome tweeters. One sets the specifications, and then tries to find a tweeter to meet them. Again, the high output means nothing unless you have equally high output from the Mid and Low section of the speaker.
Taking a typical high quality 12" bass driver with a substantial 92dB output and a Vas of 12 ft³, we would need two woofers in substantially large cabinets to reach 95dB, three or four might raise that to 98dB. Are you prepared to build speakers that require FOUR 12" bass drivers in VERY Substantial cabinets? Just so they will equal your high output tweeters?
Again, if your goal is to simply compile a list of high output tweeters, why limit it to dome tweeters when they are not the most likely to be able to do the job? Ribbon or Bullet are far more effective at high output? Still, if all you want is a list of high output dome tweeters, you seem to be getting it. But, in my view, the list is kind of pointless without a context to place it in.
Just a thought.
Steve/bluewizard
If a job is to be done, then you need the tool that does that job. For example, here is a small tweeter with 107dB output - PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Super Tweeter (107db, $35) - PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Tweeter 8 Ohm 294-2820
The Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter kicks out 111dB and fits in the space of a normal dome tweeter - Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter (11dB, $63) - Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter Black 264-450
I don't think one starts a design by saying, I want dome tweeters. One sets the specifications, and then tries to find a tweeter to meet them. Again, the high output means nothing unless you have equally high output from the Mid and Low section of the speaker.
Taking a typical high quality 12" bass driver with a substantial 92dB output and a Vas of 12 ft³, we would need two woofers in substantially large cabinets to reach 95dB, three or four might raise that to 98dB. Are you prepared to build speakers that require FOUR 12" bass drivers in VERY Substantial cabinets? Just so they will equal your high output tweeters?
Again, if your goal is to simply compile a list of high output tweeters, why limit it to dome tweeters when they are not the most likely to be able to do the job? Ribbon or Bullet are far more effective at high output? Still, if all you want is a list of high output dome tweeters, you seem to be getting it. But, in my view, the list is kind of pointless without a context to place it in.
Just a thought.
Steve/bluewizard
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Nudges 100dB in some of its range, and match up to some 98dB@1w woofers nicely..
DT-80 - Monacor HiFi dome tweeter 90Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
DT-80 - Monacor HiFi dome tweeter 90Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
despite any new very expensive hifi domes from Scan Speak - go to
Scan-Speak
there are still no high efficiency types available.
What dome tweeters in the meantime in general on the marked available comparable to the Glockenklang dome tweeters like those from post #6 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...glockenklang-phenol-99db-based-rcf-tw116.html (99db/1W/1m)??
Scan-Speak
there are still no high efficiency types available.
What dome tweeters in the meantime in general on the marked available comparable to the Glockenklang dome tweeters like those from post #6 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...glockenklang-phenol-99db-based-rcf-tw116.html (99db/1W/1m)??
I notice that after a considerable amount of time, none of the contextual issue I raised have been addressed.
Now if the Original Poster just wants a long list of tweeters, fine, his life, he can live it as he wishes. But it would be far more productive if he explained WHY he requires this, and why he insists on eliminating the very tweeters that are most likely to do the job for him?
1.) Why? What is the design you are considering that needs such high output tweeters, and why specifically dome tweeters only?
2.) What is the approximate budget for the tweeters?
3.) What frequency range will the tweeter have to functionally cover? Is this a 2-way system? 3-way? Are we talking Tweeters or Super-Tweeters? What is the anticipated crossover frequency.
4.) What is the application? Give us the general design of the overall speaker system, and how that speaker will be used? HiFi music? PA or DJ? Living room or auditorium?
5.) What is the power rating of the amp you anticipate using?
Again, no answer can have meaning without context to frame it.
Here is a tweeter with 111dB output, that is no bigger than the average done tweeter. What do you need that this tweeter doesn't give you? Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter Black 264-450
Here is a tweeter that takes up no more room that a run of the mill dome tweeter, yet it kicks out 107dB. What do you need that it is not giving you? PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Tweeter 8 Ohm 294-2820
The only logical solution is either a Bullet tweeter or some type of Ribbon tweeter, of which there are many to choose from on all price ranges.
The answer can never be better than the question.
Steve/bluewizard
Now if the Original Poster just wants a long list of tweeters, fine, his life, he can live it as he wishes. But it would be far more productive if he explained WHY he requires this, and why he insists on eliminating the very tweeters that are most likely to do the job for him?
1.) Why? What is the design you are considering that needs such high output tweeters, and why specifically dome tweeters only?
2.) What is the approximate budget for the tweeters?
3.) What frequency range will the tweeter have to functionally cover? Is this a 2-way system? 3-way? Are we talking Tweeters or Super-Tweeters? What is the anticipated crossover frequency.
4.) What is the application? Give us the general design of the overall speaker system, and how that speaker will be used? HiFi music? PA or DJ? Living room or auditorium?
5.) What is the power rating of the amp you anticipate using?
Again, no answer can have meaning without context to frame it.
Here is a tweeter with 111dB output, that is no bigger than the average done tweeter. What do you need that this tweeter doesn't give you? Selenium ST400 Super Tweeter Black 264-450
Here is a tweeter that takes up no more room that a run of the mill dome tweeter, yet it kicks out 107dB. What do you need that it is not giving you? PRV Audio TW450-Ti Titanium Bullet Tweeter 8 Ohm 294-2820
The only logical solution is either a Bullet tweeter or some type of Ribbon tweeter, of which there are many to choose from on all price ranges.
The answer can never be better than the question.
Steve/bluewizard
Answers to your Question:
1) Why? I want lowest possible power compression while reproduction, but I don't like Bullets and Horns and magnetostat - only direct radiation dome tweeters (ideal 110db/1W/1m without horn - unpossible, I know)
2) 800 until 1300 US-$/pair
3) 2000 - 18000 Hz at least
4) home hifi (without the disadvantages of typical home hifi loudspeakers like Dynaudio etc - mainly power compression and to low max SPL)
5) rating power 500W until 5000W
Have you actually read the thread at whole?
Then you would know, that I have mentioned a tweeter, which is very close to the wanted requirements - but I'm just looking for a few more alternatives.
The wanted low-mid frequency transducer therefore is this:
Fane International Ltd Loud Speakers
(I have heard - very clean and tight sonic quality, one of the best available speaker for the associated frequency range)
Maybe an additional midrange which is also suitable as a fullrange loudspeaker
But now we are out of topic - the only (clear) question here is follow:
which 99db dome tweeter without titanium and without horn are available except the me good known glockenklang version for acoustic art - new version go to
http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/108308.jpg
and old version go to
http://www.kurosawagakki.com/img/itemimages/0427/L/img1_42782.jpg
and
http://www.glockenklang.de/test/acousticart_gitarrebass_10-91.htm
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I also really like big dome tweeter, forexample Scan Speaks D3806 tweeter. This RCF driver is really big maybe 50mm voicecoil diameter? Dont you experince it as very directive? Not very much dispersion?
Impressive that it goes so high on axis.
Maybe it is still so high that it is not very troublesom in the information range, I think above 10-12KHz it will not be a problem. A Vifa XT25 ringradiator is also very directive at those high frequences.
What do you like about the sound of the RCF driver, i can imagine it has a lot of "body".
Impressive that it goes so high on axis.
Maybe it is still so high that it is not very troublesom in the information range, I think above 10-12KHz it will not be a problem. A Vifa XT25 ringradiator is also very directive at those high frequences.
What do you like about the sound of the RCF driver, i can imagine it has a lot of "body".
According the diameter the unwanted directive effects are at lower frequencies than by usual tweeters for home-audio. Listening test of Glockenklang's BassArt MK-III as home Audio speaker (long time ago) did not arise in this impression.
Who have heard the ceramic and kevlar dome tweeters from this manufacturer?
Transducer Lab precision loudspeaker engineering
Which new high efficiency dome tweeters in this kind are now available?
Who have heard the ceramic and kevlar dome tweeters from this manufacturer?
Transducer Lab precision loudspeaker engineering
Which new high efficiency dome tweeters in this kind are now available?
Discover by chance:
AudioTransducers.com
TSCT1044 - Morel
Voice Coil Magazine | audioXpress
Is ferrofluid in use? Or is it a "NoFerro"-version like various models from SEAS (by intertechnik) - go to
hifisound.de | Lautsprecher & hifi Komponenten
> 92db/1W/1m
SEAS T35C002 - 410 €
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/excel/pdfdataheet/E0055_T35C002_Datasheet.pdf
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/Lautsprecher/Seas-Excel/_T35C002_1768,de,32,144357
Ciare MT320 - 370 €
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/ciare/ciare_mt320.pdf
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Progetti/MyPersonalSpeaker/h05.3.pdf
Lautsprecher-Technik - Ciare MT320 Tweeter
Large domes
SICA LP90.28 - Z009160 - 130 €
http://www.sica.it/media/Z009160.pdf
SICA LP 90.28/N92 TW, 8 Ohm
SB-ACOUSTICS Satori TW29RN - 310 €
SB Acoustics :: Satori TW29RN <font color="#FFFF00">NEW! </font>
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/Lautsprecher/SB-Acoustics-Satori/_Satori-TW29RN_1768,de,7033,157032
Max Fidelity T26SFF18CB (Fabian Acoustics Design) no cost mentioned
http://www.maxspeakers.com/T26SFF18CB.pdf
Supravox TG1/8 - 670 Euro
Tweeter TG1 SUPRAVOX
Supravox TG1 (8Ohm)
ATOHM SD28ND04RD - 480 €
ATOHM : NOTRE BUT ULTIME ... VOUS FAIRE VIBRER
Herzlich Willkommen bei der HVH - indiana line Deutschlandvertrieb - Hochtöner SD28ND04RD
Atohm SD28ND04RD (4?)
Morel-TSCT1044 - 530 €
TSCT1044 - Morel
AudioTransducers.com
88-92db SPL 1W/1m
Scan-Speak TWEETER D2608/91300 (formerly Peerless HDS) ~150 €
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2608-913000.pdf
www.audioexcite.com ScanSpeak D2608/913000
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...covery-d2608/9130-1-textile-dome-hds-tweeter/
Scan-Speak D2905 - 300 €
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2905-950000.pdf
https://www.hifisound.de/de/Lautspr.../Scan-Speak-D-2905-970000-Gewebe-Kalotte.html
Audax TW034XP - 160 €
www_audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index]Proraum Vertriebs-GmbH | Shop
[shop_articles][action]=details&index[shop_articles][category==3&index[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=31
www_audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index[shop_articles][action]=details&index[shop_articles][category==3&index[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=31&lang=en
Apexjr supertweeter - 30 €
http_enjoythemusic.com/diy/0311/supertweeter.htm
Transducer Lab N26CF-A
http://www.transducerlab.com/index.php?pag=pro&p=p&i=36]%[/category]]%[/category]
AudioTransducers.com
TSCT1044 - Morel
Voice Coil Magazine | audioXpress
Is ferrofluid in use? Or is it a "NoFerro"-version like various models from SEAS (by intertechnik) - go to
hifisound.de | Lautsprecher & hifi Komponenten
> 92db/1W/1m
SEAS T35C002 - 410 €
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/excel/pdfdataheet/E0055_T35C002_Datasheet.pdf
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/Lautsprecher/Seas-Excel/_T35C002_1768,de,32,144357
Ciare MT320 - 370 €
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/ciare/ciare_mt320.pdf
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Progetti/MyPersonalSpeaker/h05.3.pdf
Lautsprecher-Technik - Ciare MT320 Tweeter
Large domes
SICA LP90.28 - Z009160 - 130 €
http://www.sica.it/media/Z009160.pdf
SICA LP 90.28/N92 TW, 8 Ohm
SB-ACOUSTICS Satori TW29RN - 310 €
SB Acoustics :: Satori TW29RN <font color="#FFFF00">NEW! </font>
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/Lautsprecher/SB-Acoustics-Satori/_Satori-TW29RN_1768,de,7033,157032
Max Fidelity T26SFF18CB (Fabian Acoustics Design) no cost mentioned
http://www.maxspeakers.com/T26SFF18CB.pdf
Supravox TG1/8 - 670 Euro
Tweeter TG1 SUPRAVOX
Supravox TG1 (8Ohm)
ATOHM SD28ND04RD - 480 €
ATOHM : NOTRE BUT ULTIME ... VOUS FAIRE VIBRER
Herzlich Willkommen bei der HVH - indiana line Deutschlandvertrieb - Hochtöner SD28ND04RD
Atohm SD28ND04RD (4?)
Morel-TSCT1044 - 530 €
TSCT1044 - Morel
AudioTransducers.com
88-92db SPL 1W/1m
Scan-Speak TWEETER D2608/91300 (formerly Peerless HDS) ~150 €
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2608-913000.pdf
www.audioexcite.com ScanSpeak D2608/913000
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...covery-d2608/9130-1-textile-dome-hds-tweeter/
Scan-Speak D2905 - 300 €
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2905-950000.pdf
https://www.hifisound.de/de/Lautspr.../Scan-Speak-D-2905-970000-Gewebe-Kalotte.html
Audax TW034XP - 160 €
www_audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index]Proraum Vertriebs-GmbH | Shop
[shop_articles][action]=details&index[shop_articles][category==3&index[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=31
www_audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index[shop_articles][action]=details&index[shop_articles][category==3&index[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=31&lang=en
Apexjr supertweeter - 30 €
http_enjoythemusic.com/diy/0311/supertweeter.htm
Transducer Lab N26CF-A
http://www.transducerlab.com/index.php?pag=pro&p=p&i=36]%[/category]]%[/category]
Power Compression depends on the voice coil temperature. The question to be answered here is: what is the highest Sound pressure level required? If the tweeter can take 50W dissipation, with 90db/1w/1m it is 107db absolute pressure also tweeter that can take 100w dissipation with 87db/1w/1m gives the same SPL of 107db/1W/1m. I assume here that 50w and 100w are correctly declared real allowable thermal dissipations, and both figures achieve the same temperature of the voice coil. Then, POWER COMPRESSION IS THE SAME, disregarding particular efficiency.
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At what frequency? Different driver designs will mechanically limit in different ways and will also have different cooling mechanisms so simply adding dB(sens) + dBW = SPL (wildly inaccurate assumption) and then comparing that across two different designs and declaring them equal shows you don't have a clue.
If you're going to make that case, come back with the appropriate measurement sets.
If you're going to make that case, come back with the appropriate measurement sets.
It’s the same as thinking that all tweeters with the same sensitivity have the same amount of distortion... well... They don’t
About that 2” Glockengang tweeter: are there any real specs available? Does that thing even reach 20Khz? How is the beaming up there? Why are those things apparently less important than a supposed powercompression deficiency?
About that 2” Glockengang tweeter: are there any real specs available? Does that thing even reach 20Khz? How is the beaming up there? Why are those things apparently less important than a supposed powercompression deficiency?
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I agree with Your remarks, but OP specifically required high efficiency because of "POWER COMPRESSION"(?),... as if it was the most important parameter of the speaker.
No mention of the distortion, frequency range or anything else....
From his requirements i concluded that he wants the loudest PA tweeter; therefore my crude calculation of the max. SPL....
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Well, that is the whole point.. and as you so finely pointed out:
Efficiency is not a measure for power compression..
If power compression is important, ask for a tweeter is superb power compression, not for high efficiency.
Well you should have actually read the thread.
"I want to have an overview for the aim of information and an own survey."
If looking for a HF driver for a PA, the last thing you want is a dome.