Hi all...
Back with a new unusual topic about opinions about Gibson Les Paul, how does it sound and scientific approach to its electronics, pickups and wood.
First thing that I wanted to say is that I know it is all matter of taste, but not in this case... I was never a fan of LP's, they looked nice but I always preferred the SG because it is better in every aspect, double cutaway, better pickups and sound before all... Please don't poke me for disliking the LP, but there is something in its sound that it has a great deal of bass but it is kinda brittle on the treble position, and that is the main thing that i don't like... But SG does not have that flaw. I agree that those two guitars are different but the SG is still the sequel of Les...
And the main question here is why is Les Paul that popular...
Thanks for replying in forward.
Back with a new unusual topic about opinions about Gibson Les Paul, how does it sound and scientific approach to its electronics, pickups and wood.
First thing that I wanted to say is that I know it is all matter of taste, but not in this case... I was never a fan of LP's, they looked nice but I always preferred the SG because it is better in every aspect, double cutaway, better pickups and sound before all... Please don't poke me for disliking the LP, but there is something in its sound that it has a great deal of bass but it is kinda brittle on the treble position, and that is the main thing that i don't like... But SG does not have that flaw. I agree that those two guitars are different but the SG is still the sequel of Les...
And the main question here is why is Les Paul that popular...
Thanks for replying in forward.
I guess many guitar players like the slim neck for fast playing. Personally I never liked them that much because of their enormous weight, too narrow bridge for finger picking and muffled humbucker sound.That's why I prefer the strat.
As you mentioned, this is a matter of personal taste.
To be honest, in the early days I had some interest in the SG as well😉
As you mentioned, this is a matter of personal taste.
To be honest, in the early days I had some interest in the SG as well😉
Les Paul said that Gibson wanted to put his name on the SG but he never liked it. He said he was able to get a tremolo effect by bending the neck so it wasn't stiff enough, and the lower horn always stabbed him in the hand when he moved his hand down the neck real fast, as he used to do back in the day.
In a solid body electric guitar, ideally, the body and neck should impart NOTHING to the sound. That was Les Paul's whole idea. His first attempt was to fill the body of his acoustic with plaster of paris. That pretty much ended that guitar, and his second was a fretless 'instrument' made out of a length of train rail that sounded great but wasn't actually portable. Further on, there was "The Log" which was obviously very heavy. You can google it.
If you don't like the sound of the pickups you got, install different pickups. It's not hard. This is "diyaudio" after all. You can even rewire your humbuckers as one or two single coils.
Les Paul started out as a working performer. Leo Fender never learned how to play - but a lot of people who worked for him could play.
People swear that when played loud the LPs with weight relief sound different from the ones without. I'm guessing that's because the cavities don't do anything acoustically until you are playing loud. But in solid body guitars, 'tonewood' is a myth. It should be dead weight.
But the main thing is, play the guitar that you like to play.
In a solid body electric guitar, ideally, the body and neck should impart NOTHING to the sound. That was Les Paul's whole idea. His first attempt was to fill the body of his acoustic with plaster of paris. That pretty much ended that guitar, and his second was a fretless 'instrument' made out of a length of train rail that sounded great but wasn't actually portable. Further on, there was "The Log" which was obviously very heavy. You can google it.
If you don't like the sound of the pickups you got, install different pickups. It's not hard. This is "diyaudio" after all. You can even rewire your humbuckers as one or two single coils.
Les Paul started out as a working performer. Leo Fender never learned how to play - but a lot of people who worked for him could play.
People swear that when played loud the LPs with weight relief sound different from the ones without. I'm guessing that's because the cavities don't do anything acoustically until you are playing loud. But in solid body guitars, 'tonewood' is a myth. It should be dead weight.
But the main thing is, play the guitar that you like to play.
Last edited:
I always thought Les Paul wouldn't endorse the SG because it looked "devil-like"...which it does. The SG was a pretty wild design for 62 or whenever. The Les Paul was really a solid body made to look like an archtop.
To me SG's sound more mid focused than Les Pauls and are obviously a lot lighter. And the neck sticks way out there so if you are not a big person they can be a bit of a reach. And they are neck heavy which is weird.
I have a late 60s SG special (P-90 pickups) which is a bit different...thin neck, brighter, more articulate, less sweet. It's really good at one thing...basically that "Live at Leeds" crunchy tone. Kind of sounds 75% Gibson/25% Fender. But a have a strat and a Gretch too. I like them all but I tend to use them for different things. Actually, when overdriven the Gretch and SG are not that different. The strat sounds like it's from another planet. But that's the cool thing about guitars.
To me SG's sound more mid focused than Les Pauls and are obviously a lot lighter. And the neck sticks way out there so if you are not a big person they can be a bit of a reach. And they are neck heavy which is weird.
I have a late 60s SG special (P-90 pickups) which is a bit different...thin neck, brighter, more articulate, less sweet. It's really good at one thing...basically that "Live at Leeds" crunchy tone. Kind of sounds 75% Gibson/25% Fender. But a have a strat and a Gretch too. I like them all but I tend to use them for different things. Actually, when overdriven the Gretch and SG are not that different. The strat sounds like it's from another planet. But that's the cool thing about guitars.
This seems not to be the whole truth. I agree that a solid body "should not sound at all". So I replaced the humbuckers of a Gretsch Broadcaster by single coils. Which altered the sound significantly. But then it sounded neither like a Gretsch nor like a Fender, but something in between. Not the real deal.
as to the popularity of the Les Paul it became popular among heavy rock and metal guitarists i think primarily because of the combination of sustain (which most attribute to the weight) and humbuckers for that fat scream you can get from a Marshall with a 4/12 cab.
I would never spend the money for a Gibson-branded electric guitar (IMO they are all absurdly overpriced), but I have three Korean-made guitars modeled after Gibsons: one is like a Les Paul (with Duncan pickups), one is like a (two-pickup) LP Junior II with P-90s, and the third is a semi-hollow guitar like an ES-335.
Each of them has a different character, and all three are fun to play. Yes, the LP is horrendously heavy, upper-fret access isn't good, and the famous "German carve" body edge hurts your forearm after an hour of playing. Yes, the P-90s in the Junior hum, clean tones are too muffled to work in a band context, and the body is too light to counterbalance the neck, so "neck dive" is a constant headache.
But I haven't really found a lot of flaws with the 335-type guitar. It's relatively light and comfortable, the twin cutaways and slim neck heel give you very good access to high frets, and it can sound sweeter than any solid-body guitar I've ever heard. Or you can overdrive your amp or pedal and get all the "dirt" you might reasonably need for blues, rock, or blues-rock.
IMO the most versatile, best sounding, most comfortable, and easiest to play is the 335 type guitar. The 335 seems to be able to cover most of the sounds that the LP, SG, and LP Jr do, but it also sounds at home with jazzy-clean tones, or country-pop sounds, and I've even used mine as a passable substitute for a plugged-in electro-acoustic guitar.
It's a mystery to me why the ES-335 and its cousins didn't become "the" desirable Gibson model. I think it's far and away their best guitar. Larry Carlton was right!
-Gnobuddy
Although I prefer Fenders myself, agreed about the merits of ES-335 type guitars.
Sometimes people seem to be attracted to expensive guitars as though high price will assure good tone.
However, tone seems to mostly come from the fingers. That, and from careful adjustment of whatever equipment may be available.
Sometimes people seem to be attracted to expensive guitars as though high price will assure good tone.
However, tone seems to mostly come from the fingers. That, and from careful adjustment of whatever equipment may be available.
I have a LP, an SG and a 'The Paul' (which is a LP without the maple top). Based on playing these three and on many other examples, I've concluded that the maple top gives the LP the extra high treble frequencies which are attenuated in SGs and similar guitars. I assume this is something to do with the mass and stiffness of that top layer of wood in relation to the mass and stiffness of the remainder of the body.
Probably for the same reason, the loudness of the high E string is much closer to the loudness of the other strings in a LP.
The weight of the LP and lack of bevelling to accommodate the right forearm (on a right-handed model) are the big disadvantages.
Probably for the same reason, the loudness of the high E string is much closer to the loudness of the other strings in a LP.
The weight of the LP and lack of bevelling to accommodate the right forearm (on a right-handed model) are the big disadvantages.
Last edited:
I've come to the same conclusion. I find it easier to hear the difference with the guitars unplugged - strumming or picking the guitar with the solid maple top produces an audibly brighter attack to each note. Almost a little "chip" at the start of each note.
Agreed. I have residual RSI damage in both wrists from a long-ago job that involved way too much time spent typing on a computer. If I spend too much practice time doing fast picking exercises on my LP-type guitar, the "German carve" on the body edge irritates the tendons in my forearm, and re-triggers that old RSI injury. Not fun at all!
My only guitar from the Fender side of things is a Squier Standard Stratocaster. The beveled and rounded body edge is much kinder to my forearm, and doesn't aggravate my old injuries the way the LP does. Freddie Tavares did a good job with the design of the 'Strat!
-Gnobuddy
See it straight from the horse's mouth:
Watch Les Paul Reveal Why He Never Liked the Gibson SG | Guitar Player
Of course different pickups sound different.
On any guitar, the sound comes from the strings, bridge, nut, and amplifying body.
On a solid body guitar, the amplifying body is the pickups, controls, and your rig.
If your guitar is routed for full size humbuckers, you can get adapter plates to install single coils and other styles. And like i said, you can often install a coil selector switch that will let you disconnect half of your humbucker (which is just one north and one south single coil wired together). Some cheap yamahas even come with it.
The sustain isn't due to weight but stiffness. It's about not burning the kinetic energy in the strings through flex in the body. Any through-neck or decent bolt-neck should have plenty of sustain if it is decently built.
There's a trick you can try if your bolt-neck axe suffers from limited sustain -- with the guitar strung and with tension on the strings, loosen the screws on the neck by like an 8th, maybe a quarter turn at the most.
If the neck wasn't seated fully in the pocket, you'll hear a little snap as it seats itself. Tighten the neck bolts back up, tune it up, and see if you have more sustain than you used to.
Solid body guitars do sound. If you put you ear right against the body and pluck a couple of strings to make a perfect 4th, you can hear the resulting intermodulation producing LF beat notes, or a chordal texture if you prefer. And different solid bodies sound different when doing that.
Also, since there is not much difference between strings moving relative to a pickup or a pickup moving (due to body vibration) relative to the strings, some body sound does make it to the pickups.
Also, since there is not much difference between strings moving relative to a pickup or a pickup moving (due to body vibration) relative to the strings, some body sound does make it to the pickups.
I had a mid-sixties Gibson SG---never could bond with that axe, although I suppose it was a fine guitar. Too "thin" sounding for me. My 1970 Les Paul sounds MUCH better--big sustain, huge FAT tone. But my all-time favorite is my 1961 ES-335---super thin neck (better IMO than the earlier 58-59-60 fat necks), tremendous range of sounds, great sustain, and tone to the bone!!
Totally agreed. (Wood) sound only would be eliminated if you tightly mount your bridge and saddle onto a large solid block of infinite mass. See also:
That's exactly the reason why different tone woods sound different and is also observed in necks: A one-peace maple neck gives a different sound with more attack than a neck with rosewood fretboard.
Not only him, but also, e.g., Alvin Lee, who's heavily decorated guitar became very famous as 'the' Woodstock guitar.
Best regards!
Last edited:
A testament to the great sound of a Gibson ES-335 is Cream's "Crossroads"---one of Eric Clapton's finest!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.