Ok, well I've not seen any papers on the non-linearities of cartridges on extreme transients. When B&K cut a record to put a step in to get some serious transients back in 1977 they didn't mention that. If you have any references or can remember any test cases I'd be very interested. However 24dB headroom ref 5cm/s seems to be the figure for ADC headroom most use and that seems to work very well.
No, I have not seen any real research. But my limited knowledge of magnetics would include saturation and higher frequencies should have less of an issue. I don't expect phono cartridges, other than audiophile claims, to have any special magic.
My point being one can certainly measure their variations and design for actual peaks on a pop or scratch, but to generalize is perhaps stretching it.
They don't have any special magic, although it is arguable things have gone backwards since the late 70s tech wise 
. Now the interesting part is that scratch induced tics, which are the high level ones are predominantly vertical in nature. So if doing ripping for repair converting to M+S makes a lot of sense.
Mulling it, not sure you can drive a cartridge out of its linear region, but interesting to try and test. And yes I am going to optimise for one of two cartridges, but will hunt around to see if I can find any cases where the 24dB rule of thumb doesn't work.
Of course the fact is, that if a transient comes in at that sort of level there are bigger problems to deal with in the fact that a lot of cartridges will get knocked into a tank slapper that might take 1/4 revolution to recover from. Finding the magic combination with the right mass and damping so as to not do that is where the gains really are, not the electronics.
Destroyer: will have to get back to you on that when I've done some tests as B&K weren't telling. I am currently having a lot of beliefs challenged in my research which is fun. And I would be very happy if I could end up proving that good MM were better than MC, even if it means my bleached bones get left as a warning to others
. Now the interesting part is that scratch induced tics, which are the high level ones are predominantly vertical in nature. So if doing ripping for repair converting to M+S makes a lot of sense. Mulling it, not sure you can drive a cartridge out of its linear region, but interesting to try and test. And yes I am going to optimise for one of two cartridges, but will hunt around to see if I can find any cases where the 24dB rule of thumb doesn't work.
Of course the fact is, that if a transient comes in at that sort of level there are bigger problems to deal with in the fact that a lot of cartridges will get knocked into a tank slapper that might take 1/4 revolution to recover from. Finding the magic combination with the right mass and damping so as to not do that is where the gains really are, not the electronics.
Destroyer: will have to get back to you on that when I've done some tests as B&K weren't telling. I am currently having a lot of beliefs challenged in my research which is fun. And I would be very happy if I could end up proving that good MM were better than MC, even if it means my bleached bones get left as a warning to others
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That doesn't help me a lot. My current stylus will wear out before the year is over I think.
I can tell you I had a bad stylus that needed to be tilted like 20* off in order to land the tip correctly. It sounded funny since the magnets where aligned differently to the track. Accurate? NO, but very nice to hear. But it was actually very fun to listen to because it could make drums crazy life like if they where adjusted left/right in just the right way.
I can tell you I had a bad stylus that needed to be tilted like 20* off in order to land the tip correctly. It sounded funny since the magnets where aligned differently to the track. Accurate? NO, but very nice to hear. But it was actually very fun to listen to because it could make drums crazy life like if they where adjusted left/right in just the right way.
Ideally, an A/D converter should have a clip indicator, and some show counts of the number of clip events. If trying to digitize records and clipping occurs, one could turn down the level a few dB and try again. Pretty soon it should become evident if 24dB of headroom is enough, or maybe overkill.
If the A/D does't have a clip indicator, one could be made. It's just a window comparitor with a counter. The window levels are set at wherever the A/D clips.
If the A/D does't have a clip indicator, one could be made. It's just a window comparitor with a counter. The window levels are set at wherever the A/D clips.
It's an old Ortofon VMS 3E MKII. But I removed the little shield and dampened the outside of it. It sounds a million times better after modding it a little. I'm sure JC or someone can laugh but I bet my vinyl sounds better.
NOS stock is not good for them, and the replacement cheapo's from Japan that you can buy are... well, cheap crap.
NOS stock is not good for them, and the replacement cheapo's from Japan that you can buy are... well, cheap crap.
Well I am an ortofon fan. As well as one of their MCs awaiting funds for TLC I have a super-OM body lined up. A super-OM 40 is still available new and up there with the best of anything. Other option is the ortofon540 which still lives on as the music hall mojo and has the gyger goodness, but is spendier.
I do also have an AT150MLx which wins in buzz word bingo and may be slightly better, but the replacement is $$$ and not as good.
Mark: Clips should not matter, no information there. recovery after clip is all that matters.
Richard: Glad you are finally on the page
I do also have an AT150MLx which wins in buzz word bingo and may be slightly better, but the replacement is $$$ and not as good.
Mark: Clips should not matter, no information there. recovery after clip is all that matters.
Richard: Glad you are finally on the page
Clips produce distortion in a digitized recording. Sometimes in modern mastering clipping is done intentionally to produce an artificially bright, loud, distorted CD.
Since you may be thinking of clips caused by needle skipping, maybe click and pop removal software can fix it. I don't know if it recognizes a clip in the same way it recognizes a click or pop.
There are reconstruction algorithms that attempt to recreate clipped peak events, and after that a click and pop fixer might work if it didn't work before.
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I've always wondered about the OM #0's. The stylus head shape is better for less noise pickup/resonances. The Red/Blue/Black all need a lot of dampening.
A lot of people SWEAR by MC's, but I've never heard them be anything particularly more notable than a truly well setup MM in a good system.
A lot of people SWEAR by MC's, but I've never heard them be anything particularly more notable than a truly well setup MM in a good system.
It's overblown. Even Benchmark has to throw a bone to marketing. I couldn't notice much difference with a number of modern rock recordings that almost constantly light up the clip indicator on my EMU 1820m vs when I attenuate at the source -6dB before conversion. If any recordings are going to produce intersample overs it's going to be the ones that live at 0dB constantly.
I believe Philips first encountered the inter sample overs issue about 30? years ago. I'm not cure the TDA1541 addressed it but later versions did. I'm not sure it has any relevance to transferring vinyl.
The issue of transient overload and SNR with vs. without analog eq is so easy to check. Just take the peak waveform that John identified and emulate it into a chain and check SNR on the digitized output. This would have been an involved undertaking 40 years ago. You would need to find a function generator that made a similar waveform etc. Today we have so many tools that even a generic laptop can do the testing if really needed.
I suspect the Ortofon with its really low output also has less internal inductance that may get in the way of a fast rise transient.
The issue of transient overload and SNR with vs. without analog eq is so easy to check. Just take the peak waveform that John identified and emulate it into a chain and check SNR on the digitized output. This would have been an involved undertaking 40 years ago. You would need to find a function generator that made a similar waveform etc. Today we have so many tools that even a generic laptop can do the testing if really needed.
I suspect the Ortofon with its really low output also has less internal inductance that may get in the way of a fast rise transient.
I checked a number of recent pop recordings before they were deployed at retail for demo. Most did not have actual clipping. They were limited at about 2-3 dB below actual digital overload. Same but not quite. And may not sound quite as bad but close. Not a good source if you are trying to demo hifi.
I spent some time talking with Bill Whitlock while implementing a very complex unbalanced wide-bandwidth audio replication distribution system (10Hz-1.6MHz, 90dB+ SNR). I can vouch personally for his deep understanding of the issues and his noise analysis and remediation techniques. There is no magic nor quantum physics involved in correct system interconnection.
The paper referenced in Bill's link should be required reading for any audio engineer.
Cheers,
Howie
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