Yes, small voltage swing should eliminate dielectric linearity as an issue. However, DF is usually small so surprising that it appeared to be a factor. What I can glean from your results is that LF response seems to be the issue, and both DF and DA would affect this although in both cases by too small an amount to be audible (according to generally accepted ideas). Thanks for describing your tests.Jakob2 said:Given the limited voltage swing across and the quite similar temperature niveau, the dissipation factor seemed to be the relevant variable, "lower" = "better" .
I believe there is some evidence that we judge the size of a space by its LF response so it could be that LF affects our perception of 'reality'. Did the music you used contain 'real' LF information from a performance space or was it just a studio multi-track recording?
Don't assume that because people agree on an audio website this means they are right. People all telling the truth will all agree, but so will people who have all swallowed the same myth. Fortunately, the truth about circuit theory is widely available for anyone to learn.
With the life I've had I don't assume/presume anything, anymore! But many thanks for the warning! However, in this case I don't think you have all created a common myth or employed a common myth, my senses say you are telling the truth on this matter. Safety in numbers 😉
Does that mean that is only one, or two, agree you will assume they are lying?
No.
Suprsising, isn´t it? 😉
With all respect, can I politely ask if there is a "sub thread/thread hijack" going on here please? There seems to be a separate discussion going on "here & there", hidden within my theme. I can point out the post numbers if necessary that I am referring to.
Sorry if this is not the case!
Don't assume that because people agree on an audio website this means they are right. People all telling the truth will all agree, but so will people who have all swallowed the same myth. Fortunately, the truth about circuit theory is widely available for anyone to learn.
With the life I've had I don't assume/presume anything, anymore! But many thanks for the warning! However, in this case I don't think you have all created a common myth or employed a common myth, my senses say you are telling the truth on this matter. "Safety in numbers" 😉
Besides which, google search corroborates your findings 90% of the time anyway. 😉
There is a side discussion going on, but it is relevant to the theme of this thread. This is quite usual on this forum. The Mods generally allow this, and only take action when the side discussion gets out of hand or wanders a long way from the original topic. Unlike what may happen on some other forums, the thread starter does not 'own' the thread - although common sense and good manners ought to mean that any side discussions are relevant.thedoc735 said:With all respect, can I politely ask if there is a "sub thread/thread hijack" going on here please? There seems to be a separate discussion going on "here & there", hidden within my theme. I can point out the post numbers if necessary that I am referring to.
So when these arrive, I can only suggest that you take time and evaluate each change at a time, giving some time in between each.
If by chance some of the parts selected by the manufacturer of your product happen to work better than what you had selected, you will know which part swap did what.
If by chance some of the parts selected by the manufacturer of your product happen to work better than what you had selected, you will know which part swap did what.
There is a side discussion going on, but it is relevant to the theme of this thread. This is quite usual on this forum. The Mods generally allow this, and only take action when the side discussion gets out of hand or wanders a long way from the original topic. Unlike what may happen on some other forums, the thread starter does not 'own' the thread - although common sense and good manners ought to mean that any side discussions are relevant.
ok, it's cool, no probs! I'm quite liberal anyway 😎
So when these arrive, I can only suggest that you take time and evaluate each change at a time, giving some time in between each.
If by chance some of the parts selected by the manufacturer of your product happen to work better than what you had selected, you will know which part swap did what.
...yer, that's quite a reasonable suggestion, many thanks! 😉
those 2200 caps at mouser or digi-key would have been around £24 inc. shipping & VAT. However at "Arrow" they were around £6. Good value. Recommended on price. 

those 2200 caps at mouser or digi-key would have been around £24 inc. shipping & VAT. However at "Arrow" they were around £6. Good value. Recommended on price.![]()
https://www.arrow.com/
Arrow uses a carrier that charges extra fees for processing any import duties, or VAT.
That carrier even charges their extra fee when the import duty is assessed as zero !
That carrier even charges their extra fee when the import duty is assessed as zero !
Arrow uses a carrier that charges extra fees for processing any import duties, or VAT.
That carrier even charges their extra fee when the import duty is assessed as zero !
Well, I didn't have to pay any extra fees and the carrier was FedEx. 😕
new link (what I actually got):
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtvZwp0rE3Aa0HI83Qoftn-UZ8uh
the originals:
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtvZwp0rE3Aa0G6CTMx6ZhhLeIg1
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtvZwp0rE3Aa0HI83Qoftn-UZ8uh
the originals:
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtvZwp0rE3Aa0G6CTMx6ZhhLeIg1
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That should encourage you to see if the experiment is now repeatable and reproducible. Rather than depending on 3 decades old info.I beg to differ; although not exactly the same but our first controlled listening experiment (singleblind) back in 1984/1985 was about the difference between two foil capacitors with different dielectrica (Polyester vs. Polypropylene) used as coupling capacitors in a phonopreamplifier. As said before, having read Dan Shanefield´s article about blind testing, i found his reasoning convincing and we tried it. Of course quite amateurish at that time, not knowing much about sensory tests and their difficulties, but 5 trials with correct identification needed in each trial to reject the null hypothesis.
Obviously a popular belief, but apparently not true in general. That shouldn´t be _that_ surprising as our listening sense is a nonlinear device......
I have noticed that a previous owner had mounted several axial caps in the radial position, BUT left the 'long lead' exposed without insulation - not good!
I removed these in order to insulate the long leads BUT found that the soldering and installation was botched!! ~ leads were 'dog eared' and chewed in order to get them through the narrow PCB eyelets! (which were obviously designed for much smaller 'leads'); so, I am now going to replace them too with 'like for like' brand new items and simply attach a slightly narrow AWG wire to each 'lead' so that they will fit the PCB eyelets correctly and then insulate as well. I don't have the equipment to fit larger eyelets to the PCB. Also some of the 'tracks' have started to lift due to excessive meddling by previous owners, so have to be extremely careful (or use conductive tape to repair tracks!).

I removed these in order to insulate the long leads BUT found that the soldering and installation was botched!! ~ leads were 'dog eared' and chewed in order to get them through the narrow PCB eyelets! (which were obviously designed for much smaller 'leads'); so, I am now going to replace them too with 'like for like' brand new items and simply attach a slightly narrow AWG wire to each 'lead' so that they will fit the PCB eyelets correctly and then insulate as well. I don't have the equipment to fit larger eyelets to the PCB. Also some of the 'tracks' have started to lift due to excessive meddling by previous owners, so have to be extremely careful (or use conductive tape to repair tracks!).


What is the problem with the 'long lead' being uninsulated? Will the music leak out?
As we all know, the cure for excessive meddling is more meddling.
As we all know, the cure for excessive meddling is more meddling.
What is the problem with the 'long lead' being uninsulated? Will the music leak out?
As we all know, the cure for excessive meddling is more meddling.
Parasitic inductance from long leads is reported on many forums, maybe even this one?
e.g. http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/What-is-stray-inductance.php I would rather 'hedge my bets' with this learning website, than your opinion.
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Component stray inductance is rarely relevant to audio. Insulating a wire does not change its inductance.
The link you gave is not very well written. I suspect the author has limited knowledge and experience. If you want to learn electronics then a good textbook would be better than random websites.
The link you gave is not very well written. I suspect the author has limited knowledge and experience. If you want to learn electronics then a good textbook would be better than random websites.
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