😀, yep, they are all different ! I dare say it has only interrest for sound compensation in relation to set up the whole system in relation to your own tastes... a said better cap may be better or not... all is a filter and at the end you have only the whole interaction going out of the speaker !
Ok, let us assume he said this and he meant it to mean what it appears to mean and there are no surrounding caveats or restrictions. In that case it is simply false. He is mistaken. A short cable within a unit from one board to another carrying an analogue audio signal does not have to be anything special: you simply need a pair of good conductors (e.g. almost any metal - or a banana) separated by a good insulator. In some cases they may need to be twisted or screened if there are local source of interference (e.g. a PSU in the same box).thedoc735 said:
If I did that and found a genuine difference then I would conclude that there was something wrong with my circuit design, such as a wrong value or poor choice of dielectric.
Yes. A short piece of wire can act as a filter for frequencies above a few GHz. As we all know, such frequencies are very relevant to audio.phase said:
This thread seems to be a thread written by a person trying to talk his/herself into validating the use of perfectly normal components at a grossly inflated ego price in the name of audiophile.
If you don't like the sound, try something that puts the harmonics back in to your ears. It is called analogue.
If you don't like the sound, try something that puts the harmonics back in to your ears. It is called analogue.
Spec sheets only show data under specific test conditions, so they don't always paint a complete picture of component performance. Single values are often provided based on a specific voltage, frequency, temperature etc - which may or may not reflect your specific application. Some manufacturers show graphs of certain values (under varying conditions), which can illustrate behaviour in a more dynamic scenario - this can be more useful if you can match those with your application.
Basically, being able to read a spec-sheet doesn't afford you the complete picture of a part's performance. This is why two parts with matching specsheets may still result in different sound - not because any "laws of physics have been broken" - but rather because the basic measurements provided were insufficient.
If cost isn't a concern, I see no harm in trying different options and seeing what you like - with the caveat that unless the testing is double-blind with A/B switching and two otherwise-identical devices (at minimum), then human perception/bias errors are likely to exist.
Alternatively, invest in some serious measuring equipment. Just don't expect definitive answers from reading basic mfg specsheets: use them as a guide, understand what they provide, and understand their limitations.
Anyway, your result would likely just be a result of ripple current rating, a quick look at the specs would have illustrated which would work better in this scenario (6.1A for the EPCOS vs. 4A or 5A for KG depending on chosen size = up to 35% improvement) without double-blind testing.
It's a well-known fact that "audio" caps are going to perform poorly when used in a PSU application due to inferior ripple ratings. I think this is one application where literally picking parts based on the spec sheets is going to work well. In other applications however (signal path coupling, decoupling, filtering), there can be audible differences that aren't always covered by basic spec data, and measurement or double-blind testing is useful.
Basically, being able to read a spec-sheet doesn't afford you the complete picture of a part's performance. This is why two parts with matching specsheets may still result in different sound - not because any "laws of physics have been broken" - but rather because the basic measurements provided were insufficient.
If cost isn't a concern, I see no harm in trying different options and seeing what you like - with the caveat that unless the testing is double-blind with A/B switching and two otherwise-identical devices (at minimum), then human perception/bias errors are likely to exist.
Alternatively, invest in some serious measuring equipment. Just don't expect definitive answers from reading basic mfg specsheets: use them as a guide, understand what they provide, and understand their limitations.
Nichicon FG doesn't even come in 10,000uF / 50V, so I'm guessing you meant KG.
Anyway, your result would likely just be a result of ripple current rating, a quick look at the specs would have illustrated which would work better in this scenario (6.1A for the EPCOS vs. 4A or 5A for KG depending on chosen size = up to 35% improvement) without double-blind testing.
It's a well-known fact that "audio" caps are going to perform poorly when used in a PSU application due to inferior ripple ratings. I think this is one application where literally picking parts based on the spec sheets is going to work well. In other applications however (signal path coupling, decoupling, filtering), there can be audible differences that aren't always covered by basic spec data, and measurement or double-blind testing is useful.
True, but not sufficiently better than copper to make any practical difference to any audio circuit. People like silver because it is shiny, even when they are convinced that it is because of some other reason.thedoc735 said:
We could stop the thread here by just telling the OP to buy the most expensive caps he can afford. This seems to be the advice he wants to hear. I am sure someone will pop up and support this, on the grounds that he did the same and achieved fantastic sound in a completely different circuit.
There is a general problem which occurs in both cap and cable threads: the innocent questioner simply cannot believe that ordinary good components are good enough for audio when used in a good circuit. Telling them that physics says so does not impress them. Telling them that all the music they hear was recorded using technology based on this idea doesn't seem to work either. There is this fond belief that people selling expensive items must be doing it for the good of the customer, and that all these other customers buying the stuff must know what they are doing.
Of course, there are situations where cap details matter such as passive speaker crossovers but even there the differences cannot be as great as some people imagine.
There is a general problem which occurs in both cap and cable threads: the innocent questioner simply cannot believe that ordinary good components are good enough for audio when used in a good circuit. Telling them that physics says so does not impress them. Telling them that all the music they hear was recorded using technology based on this idea doesn't seem to work either. There is this fond belief that people selling expensive items must be doing it for the good of the customer, and that all these other customers buying the stuff must know what they are doing.
Of course, there are situations where cap details matter such as passive speaker crossovers but even there the differences cannot be as great as some people imagine.
Wrong, I have even said in this thread that I know most expensive is not always/necessarily better! So, were you get that idea I don't know?
Anyway, using datasheet info (not based on cost or audio grade) because I can't afford the time, energy & cost of buying every single cap out there that happens to fit the parameters, I have decided on the following caps to give 'a go':
EEU-FM1V471B (keep)
EEU-FM1V102B (keep)
RNU1V151MDN1PH
UHW1V182MHD6
870055674003
...these are based on things like: voltage, uF, ESR, ripple, size, longevity, termination, temp., tolerance, Q factor, tang, 'and the like'. 😛
EEU-FM1V471B (keep)
EEU-FM1V102B (keep)
RNU1V151MDN1PH
UHW1V182MHD6
870055674003
...these are based on things like: voltage, uF, ESR, ripple, size, longevity, termination, temp., tolerance, Q factor, tang, 'and the like'. 😛
...reading between the lines I get the distinct impression that you are opposed to me gaining knowledge; 11 pages SHOULD help me a great deal if it contains 'knowledge' rather than opinions? The more replies the better, more to learn and absorb I would have thought?
+1
(I mean page)
Achtung : polymer caps may give a Strange result sometimes in an analog circuit !
But better thousands pages, the best is you are doing your test and report where it's driving you.
(I mean page)
Achtung : polymer caps may give a Strange result sometimes in an analog circuit !
But better thousands pages, the best is you are doing your test and report where it's driving you.
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"Solid polymer capacitors can be used to smooth out the voltage from a power source to a sensitive circuit, reducing power noise. In such applications, they can easily replace standard electrolytic capacitors, provided that the operating voltage is sufficiently low. They can also be used for power bypass and signal decoupling."
Read more Polymer Capacitor » Capacitor Guide
It may work as the opposite.
Yep I readed it already but more important I tried in real life. On the analog circuits you might have a not so good result, but proves are in the pudding : TRY 🙂
Yep I readed it already but more important I tried in real life. On the analog circuits you might have a not so good result, but proves are in the pudding : TRY 🙂
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