I don't recall having asked for purest sound or perfection, my exact words were "I want simple design" and "I'm not after a specific design, only an easy to build amp".
So I'm still confused as why Peter Daniel's would be excluded from your list, Dario. From my total lack of experience, I don't see why that would not be an easy kit, and I would love to know more about those design differences.
Thank you again, in any case
Thank you.
While the Modulus-86 has balanced input, it can be used with single-ended sources as well.
The Sympatico uses the LM4780 IC which is no longer manufactured. You can probably still find some floating around, but last I checked the official distributors were all out of stock. If they did manage to dust up some stock, RS or Farnell (in the UK) would have it. Newark in the US = Farnell in the UK, so Newark can for a fee pull from the UK stock. Just saying... I wouldn't make your first project an exercise in part sourcing.
Tom
Peter Daniels amps aren't a simple design, they are minimalist, based on the Gaincard philosophy of less is more. Best with efficient speakers, definitely not a party amp or for AC/DC.
All chipamps, with or without nested feedback are easy to build since you don't need to adjust bias, match active devices or similar things.
I thought that building an amp would imply that it have to make good sound, sorry for what I think were good suggestions.
It's a kit with a very low part count (so not easier but simply quickier to build...) but it's also a basic and really old design which is no particularly better/worse than most gainclones you can find on eBay.
I also don't like the decoupling scheme which, IMHO, will impact performance.
A basic kit like that should match datasheet performance at 0.1% THD+N distortion, Tom's gainclone reach 0.0019 % THD+N.
Difference is almost in decoupling and PCB design.
Sure... Tom's solution will cost (much) more than the 98$ of a full kit from Audiosector but performance is also (much) higher.
The total cost of an amp with transformers, connectors, cabling, chassis is over 350/400€... the final difference would be 20-30%, not that much.
Talking about prices... building a pair of My_Ref FE modules (which includes power supply and speaker protection) costs circa 200€, 0.0018% THD+N (input cap shorted).
The PCB design is a not small part of a circuit performance.
Make your own conclusions.
Hi Tom, that's a very good point, thank you!
Hi Mark, thank you. I haven't detailed music preferences nor speakers because I thought I needed to focus the post on building an easy kit, but maybe I should. The idea is to also build a sealed pair of around 4" fullranges (probably Dayton). I know it's not going to sound perfect but i value other things as being able to do it myself, design, etc
Dario, please don't take me wrong, I didn't mean to look disrespectful or not grateful, if that was the case please accept my apologies. I want it to sound ok, but given budget restrictions i know it will not sound perfect (see speakers comment above). So, in the end I think all those kits would sound good enough, right? That's why the focus was on build difficulty level.
Ok i get it. The main difference then vs ebay/chinese kits would be PCB/components quality, not much performance. Noted, thank you.
And that's good! My only concern on your PCB is I'm not sure I'll be good enough soldering SMD parts, the rest of the kits use bigger components.
Thank you again everyone for all your comments
A lot of boards won't even match the data sheet performance. The difference is mostly in the board layout.
Depends on what you consider to be "much more". The LM3886DR PCB is $39. The parts run $27. That's $66/channel.
A ModuShop chassis is $110 through DIY Audio Store (or ModuShop directly). The Neutrik XLR and SpeakON connectors will set you back about $15 total for a stereo build. Add a power supply and a few other sundry items and you're at $200-250ish.
Well... It includes the rectifiers and reservoir caps. The expensive part of the power supply - the power transformer - is additional, right?
My Modulus-86, which is a nested feedback amp, reaches 0.00038 % THD+N, by the way. 😉
Tom
Ok, no problem..
It depends what you mean by good enough...if you mean enjoy some music, sure they pretty all make sound.
But at minimum premium you can have astonishing better quality, a nested feedback amp will sound much better than LM3886 alone.
From there my recommendation for Sympatico, Modulus 86 and My_Ref FE
I'm not so sure... I said that 'technically' (PCB design quality and circuit) an Audiosector kit is not that different from an eBay kit.
Chinese PCBs are usually manifactured with good quality, how they're designed is another thing...
It's not that difficult but if you want I offer PCBs with SMDs pre-soldered at a 50€ premium per PCB pair.
Even worst then... but not so different from what I've said.
The Audiosector kit includes dual mono power supply
So it compares to 2 x 66$ + 2 x 50$ (Power -86) that makes 232$ for a dual mono stereo set.
Right, but power supply was already on the 232$ above, so it means:
- chassis as above, 110$
- power transformers (2x), circa 100$
- The neutrick set above, circa 15$
- some cabling, power switch and connector, fuse holder, fuse, etc, say 25$
Not so different, isn't it? 😉
Correct, the power transformers (2x since it's a dual mono amp) are excluded.
We all know, it would be surpring anything different since your plain LM3886 already give similar numbers to the FEs.
Nevertheless those numbers doesn't say all... BTW I'm still waiting your part on our agreement... or I've missed your measurements results? 😉
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the dataseet has the circuit design. and you don't really need a pcb for it. the function of every external component is explained.
allso the gai is fixed internally, leaving you with.. actually no more thna coupling and filtering capacitors to install, and standby/mute controlls.
in terms of umber of external components one of the most minimalistic stuff you can find.
however, the suggested lm3886 done right kit is unarguably the far better choice quality wise, power wise, and its a well prooven construction from a verry respected person.
so IMHO you have only 3 choices (in alphabetical order):
I would add another kit, GT-102(or 101) Stereo Power Amplifier Kit (GT-102K). Akitika Preamp and Power Amp Kits.
This guy(Dan Joffe) is very very good, customer service is A+
- Modulus 86 (balanced input)
- My_Ref Fremen Edition (single ended)
- Sympatico (full balanced)
I would add another kit, GT-102(or 101) Stereo Power Amplifier Kit (GT-102K). Akitika Preamp and Power Amp Kits.
This guy(Dan Joffe) is very very good, customer service is A+
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indeed a good list.
but i would still recommend as a first build from ground up my old trusty sta chip...
not mutch headroom in terms of designing with it, however its soo funky when you put thought in it, not just build something allready designed for you. might as well just grab a finished shelf unit, so to say. where is the diy in that.
but i would still recommend as a first build from ground up my old trusty sta chip...
not mutch headroom in terms of designing with it, however its soo funky when you put thought in it, not just build something allready designed for you. might as well just grab a finished shelf unit, so to say. where is the diy in that.
Look I currently have a Panasonic SC-PM01 micro system. i wouldn't even call that a HiFi, so... xD
Noted, thank you
I was reading the datasheet and I might give STA540 a go for a secondary amp to rear speakers
Both DR and FE look like the best options, yeah
Thank you but i dont want to buy smth complete, i want some degree of DIY, I dont see the amp alone in at site, maybe i missed it
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Take a look at classdaudio.com, although shipping may be prohibitive.
They offer lots of options, with or without a case, just the amp module, just the power supply, etc...
They offer lots of options, with or without a case, just the amp module, just the power supply, etc...
I would start out with a complete kit. You can do the "buy a board and hit Mouser" routine as a first step; that isn't the issue. I just think the exercise with hand-holding is very educational for a first time builder. You learn things you will re-use forever that will save you much grief going forward.
There are so many great products available, I would take ten posts to list them all. For showroom-quality sonics, you can look at AudioNoteKits and Elekit. For more modest outlays there are a host of excellent phono preamps.
I realize those options bust your budget, but they are of a quality that would mean never actually having to replace them if you're sensible about it. All the options you've listed will be sitting on a shelf somewhere sooner or later or repurposed into a secondary or lower tier system. Useful, but not meeting the goal of excellent home HiFi.
If that means buying a garage-sale classic for now and saving more for your first build, I say that's the better option. In other words, don't lose sight of the goal.
There are so many great products available, I would take ten posts to list them all. For showroom-quality sonics, you can look at AudioNoteKits and Elekit. For more modest outlays there are a host of excellent phono preamps.
I realize those options bust your budget, but they are of a quality that would mean never actually having to replace them if you're sensible about it. All the options you've listed will be sitting on a shelf somewhere sooner or later or repurposed into a secondary or lower tier system. Useful, but not meeting the goal of excellent home HiFi.
If that means buying a garage-sale classic for now and saving more for your first build, I say that's the better option. In other words, don't lose sight of the goal.
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Hey Tom, I've been reading all about your amps in your site. Design documents are really helpful. On Modulus 286 buy page it says "Ideally suited for multi-channel amplification" but on the circuit description page this is ommited ( only mono and stereo are explained). could you please elaborate on the multi-channel feature? Thank you
Sergi
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