After completing fostex fe166en spiral horns and fostex fe206en karlsonators I want to try my hand at a multi way design.
I am a not experienced but also I do not want to just build from an existing plan. So it is up to you guys to prevent me from going in really stupid directions
Because I might screw up I want to work with relatively cheap drivers.
From all I have read the Peerless TC9FD18-08 3-1/2" seems to be a really awesome fullrange/midrange. And for under 11$ it is almost a giveaway. So I want to use this as a midrage.
For the top end I am looking for what full range aficionados call a super tweeter. A tweeter with flat response well past 20K. Maybe the Peerless by Tymphany XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter? But off axix this one is not so great.
For the low end I could use two Peerless by Tymphany SDS-160F25PR01-08 6-1/2" and make it a 3.5 way........or just a good 12" woofer that goes loooooooow. I would like to hit the low 30's
I will use passive crossovers and drive it with a 70w rms vintage Pioneer sx2500
I am a not experienced but also I do not want to just build from an existing plan. So it is up to you guys to prevent me from going in really stupid directions
Because I might screw up I want to work with relatively cheap drivers.
From all I have read the Peerless TC9FD18-08 3-1/2" seems to be a really awesome fullrange/midrange. And for under 11$ it is almost a giveaway. So I want to use this as a midrage.
For the top end I am looking for what full range aficionados call a super tweeter. A tweeter with flat response well past 20K. Maybe the Peerless by Tymphany XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter? But off axix this one is not so great.
For the low end I could use two Peerless by Tymphany SDS-160F25PR01-08 6-1/2" and make it a 3.5 way........or just a good 12" woofer that goes loooooooow. I would like to hit the low 30's
I will use passive crossovers and drive it with a 70w rms vintage Pioneer sx2500
Vifa 3.5 mid
Not a bad idea... the only red flag is the low efficiency of the Vifa... you can gain a db or two depending on your crossover (band pass gain). Even with that you are in the mid 80's dbw efficiency wise. Most 12" and or dual 6.5 set ups you will end up more like 87-88 dbw assuming a 3 db or so bass step.
Bottom line is if you want to use the excellent 3.5, you have to design around it!
My $0.03 worth!
Not a bad idea... the only red flag is the low efficiency of the Vifa... you can gain a db or two depending on your crossover (band pass gain). Even with that you are in the mid 80's dbw efficiency wise. Most 12" and or dual 6.5 set ups you will end up more like 87-88 dbw assuming a 3 db or so bass step.
Bottom line is if you want to use the excellent 3.5, you have to design around it!
My $0.03 worth!
Do drivers need to be sensitivity matched? I know for tweeters they use an Lpad. Can't that be done for all drivers?
Best to choose a higher sensitivity driver for a midrange, maybe sds 5.25", or make mtm with that midrange of yours and a very small flange tweeter in the middle. 6,5" sds woofers are deep bass capable. Greebster member has made TL's with multiple woofers like that and measured cut-off somewhere around 30 Hz. Awesome budget drivers.
yes MTM solves the sensitivity mismatch and takes care of the baffle step... The SLS woofer is 87.9 db...two TC9FD's up to baffle step are 86.5 dB.....close enough?
M: TC9FD ....250-3kHz
T: Peerless XT19TD00-04 3/4" Dual Radiator Tweeter 3kHz-40kHz
M: TC9FD......250-1150Hz (solves 30cm baffle step)
Weerless 830668 10" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofer F3=28 Hz vented 80L
Not super budget anymore due to $75 SLS woofers but still very good value.
Do these drivers match as well as i think they do?
Thanks for all your comments!
M: TC9FD ....250-3kHz
T: Peerless XT19TD00-04 3/4" Dual Radiator Tweeter 3kHz-40kHz
M: TC9FD......250-1150Hz (solves 30cm baffle step)
W
eerless 830668 10" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofer F3=28 Hz vented 80LNot super budget anymore due to $75 SLS woofers but still very good value.
Do these drivers match as well as i think they do?
Thanks for all your comments!
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You should model the diffraction pattern for TC9FD and XT19 on such a wide baffle in EDGE simulator or similar. It could be benign but it may not.
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Maybe not a budget solution but the Scan Speak 10F (comes in a few different versions) is close family to the Vifa TC9 and more efficient.
It's no secret I like the TC9, but in this case I'd opt for one of the 10F drivers.
If the Vifa is awesome (and I think it is) the Scan Speak 10F is awesome +1. It's a little better in almost all ways. Sadly it's a lot more expensive.
It's no secret I like the TC9, but in this case I'd opt for one of the 10F drivers.
If the Vifa is awesome (and I think it is) the Scan Speak 10F is awesome +1. It's a little better in almost all ways. Sadly it's a lot more expensive.
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Are you really recommending the 10F to somebody who started a thread headlined 'super budget...' even though it costs 9 times as much as his own very reasonable suggestion?
+ 1 , but my opinion comes from the distant test of xrq971 only!
OP should consider to horn the tc9 for more efficienty and spl as well (look for the work of Weltersys and xrq971 members)
Does it make sense to chose a TC9 with a so low XO High pass and a not so low Low pass filter ????? For such values I would more choose (if not horned) a bigger speaker : 5" to 6", some 8" !
I sure am, due to it being more efficient like I said. If this ends up as a passive design, the components needed to deal with sensitivity mismatch might make up the price difference in no time. The 10F starts at ~$ 60,00 depending on which model you choose.
As said, I am a fan of the TC9, it's (almost) all I use:
(two rows of 25x Vifa TC9 FD18-08, the almost part means I actually use 2x Scan Speak 10F as ambient helpers)
Used like this sensitivity isn't going to be a problem for the Vifa anymore. It also falls outside of the super budget class...
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A simulation of TMW
Seems sensitivity of each unit matches well for a simple 3 way box. Woofer/mid XO point BW3, the other one is more like LR4. 80 litre vented box with baffle step included. Everything was prepared in Excel spreadsheet Response Modeler. Included is also approximated acoustic offset of drivers in a flat baffle. Drivers are SLS10, TC9 FD18-8 and XT19 TD00-4.
Seems sensitivity of each unit matches well for a simple 3 way box. Woofer/mid XO point BW3, the other one is more like LR4. 80 litre vented box with baffle step included. Everything was prepared in Excel spreadsheet Response Modeler. Included is also approximated acoustic offset of drivers in a flat baffle. Drivers are SLS10, TC9 FD18-8 and XT19 TD00-4.
Attachments
Still seems a bit off.
Lojzek's advice/help is very appropriate but when someone asks for help with a budget speaker design it is IMO not very helpful to suggest supplanting a perfectly functional $11 driver with a $60-90 one.
I doubt the couple of resistors needed for an Lpad get anywhere near the $50-80 price difference and taking BSC into account the OP might well end up having to pad the 10F down anyway if he were to use it.
I could have said nothing, sure. I actually adore that little Vifa and only mentioned the 10F after reading the reply immediately after the original post, the one by John Busch.
John would be another poster with a great deal of first hand experience with this great bargain Vifa driver, as can be seen in this thread. Talk about a successful bargain project!
You may find it out of line, I'll leave it up to the original poster to make up his mind. I didn't want to be rude. Look up my posts about the Vifa, I've been nothing but positive about it.
I don't care about it's low price point, it's a marvellous driver. All I'm saying it will be hard to find one that matches it's performance and is more efficient. The 10F does just that. As it is a very close relative. I'd wish it was more affordable too. All in all creating a 3 way speaker will be how well we can make the separate parts work together. There's also the slightly more expensive TG9, the 8 ohm version would have my preference, and even a Kevlar coned driver that's almost impossible to source depending on where you live. This thread features a lot more info on all of them and how they are related.
My excuses if my post offended you. Can we move on now?
As a tweeter I would support the idea of using the XT25SC90. I love that tweeter. Though the XT19 would probably be fine too.
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I played around with my three drivers in the Basta! software (which I think is amazing after first use.....very detailed/complex but an idiot like me can use it intuitively) and here is my first result. The system uses no L-pad and crosses over at 300Hz and 3kHz. If I enable room gain the lower base is a bit more elevated.....but i will use the speakers in a room with many large open windows so i just disabled room gain in the model.
@Lojzek. I used exactly the opposite. BW4 for the bass/mid and BW3 for mid/high. I don't know why thoug. just looked prettier on my graph i guess. I should read up on the differences between crossovers.
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