waiting about the sound testimonial about the 5000's (it sounds like an american TV serie !), here some entertainments about "classical art wood vernissage au tampon" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5G35VV5Kjc : here it is about transparency...
Of course the very old chineese "laque" and all the more recent South asia one, like the japoneese as well are a great stuff² !
I understand more after a little wikipedia googling there were some habits to make incrustration on the beautifull stuff coated with "laque" (red, black, and sometiles with rare metal as gold if I undestood what I readed from Google) : many funeral stuffs as well.... we have a direct shortcut to monkey coffins ! (but for rich people !)!
Well I believe most of the piano coating for speakers are not so SOTA and with the good Learning, most of us could make some good classic antic furniture coating...
Hey, but how it sounds ?
Of course the very old chineese "laque" and all the more recent South asia one, like the japoneese as well are a great stuff² !
I understand more after a little wikipedia googling there were some habits to make incrustration on the beautifull stuff coated with "laque" (red, black, and sometiles with rare metal as gold if I undestood what I readed from Google) : many funeral stuffs as well.... we have a direct shortcut to monkey coffins ! (but for rich people !)!
Well I believe most of the piano coating for speakers are not so SOTA and with the good Learning, most of us could make some good classic antic furniture coating...
Hey, but how it sounds ?
Last edited:
Hm. I refinished some chairs last year. Automotive catalyzed lacquer. Crazy expensive, $250 for one quart including the catalyst.
Sprayed 3 coats, and it's as smooth as any piano finish. Yeah, you need decent spray equipment, but no sanding or buffing after the last coat.
Sprayed 3 coats, and it's as smooth as any piano finish. Yeah, you need decent spray equipment, but no sanding or buffing after the last coat.
I vaguely remember listening to them. This was with a high-end Hitachi electronics stack. Um, they played loud, without hurting, but that's about the best and worst I could have said about them.
I also liked the looks of them a great deal at the time. A little ahead of their time, a speaker pair like that would look great straddling a 65" OLED screen. 🙂
Best,
Erik
I also liked the looks of them a great deal at the time. A little ahead of their time, a speaker pair like that would look great straddling a 65" OLED screen. 🙂
Best,
Erik
While reading a story about Greg Timbers, I was surprised to find that his personal favorite was the rather conventional looking JBL L250. Despite the fact that he's designed a ton of famous horns.
Makes me curious to hear some of these big monkey coffins from the 70s and 80s.
Last edited:
i heard them today
... in the hifi profis shop in frankfurt. They showcase a speaker every now and then. They have all the big names. The yamaha is very impressive. Its so incredibly natural. I mean the string of violin sounds like a string of violin, and piano sounds like piano. And the most impressive of all , its so small, in the showroom was in front of big name behemoth speakers. So compared to them looked small. But it is small, almost bookshelf. It did not lack anything. The bass was incredible, natural bass, no hint of exageration or distortion. The separation , world class.
I make speakers myself and the first thing that came to my mind is that they do have something unique, it cant be that an almost bookshelf speaker plays so well.
I was so impressed that i made a forum entry. How this technology they have can be replicated? At least the enclosure technology.
... in the hifi profis shop in frankfurt. They showcase a speaker every now and then. They have all the big names. The yamaha is very impressive. Its so incredibly natural. I mean the string of violin sounds like a string of violin, and piano sounds like piano. And the most impressive of all , its so small, in the showroom was in front of big name behemoth speakers. So compared to them looked small. But it is small, almost bookshelf. It did not lack anything. The bass was incredible, natural bass, no hint of exageration or distortion. The separation , world class.
I make speakers myself and the first thing that came to my mind is that they do have something unique, it cant be that an almost bookshelf speaker plays so well.
I was so impressed that i made a forum entry. How this technology they have can be replicated? At least the enclosure technology.
Ferrite/ Iron core Inductors (Cheap) Electrolytic capacitors (Cheap). Bennic brand non-polar capacitors (Cheap). In Fact, I find the Same in my cheap Sony speakers.
I can't imagine these passive Cross Over components costing more then $100, wholesale.
I know Very little about Speaker Systems, But, I am familiar with electronics.
I would have to be a Wino to consider these boxes.
I can't imagine these passive Cross Over components costing more then $100, wholesale.
I know Very little about Speaker Systems, But, I am familiar with electronics.
I would have to be a Wino to consider these boxes.
Hi Pekodot,
How are the bass ? It was the default of the NS-1000....
Seems the roll-off is high (40/50 Hz ?)
Thanks for your testimonial (proof is in the pudding!)
How are the bass ? It was the default of the NS-1000....
Seems the roll-off is high (40/50 Hz ?)
Thanks for your testimonial (proof is in the pudding!)
Last edited:
While reading a story about Greg Timbers, I was surprised to find that his personal favorite was the rather conventional looking JBL L250. Despite the fact that he's designed a ton of famous horns.
Makes me curious to hear some of these big monkey coffins from the 70s and 80s.
I've heard those JBLs at an exhibition back in '82 or '83.
They are the only pieces of kit I remember from that as being exceptionally good.
This sentiment is why so many of us turn to building our own; we make loudspeakers with better raw materials, for less money.
Well sad to say Im in agreement with Eldam too expensive.
Just like German Physiks. Wow I cannot bring myself to
accept their prices even for their entry level models.
Looking back I recall seeing them selling the drivers
in Speaker Builder & it didn't cost a ton then
Just like German Physiks. Wow I cannot bring myself to
accept their prices even for their entry level models.
Looking back I recall seeing them selling the drivers
in Speaker Builder & it didn't cost a ton then
Perhaps you would, and given Yamaha's purchasing muscle, the filters probably do cost them wholesale about $100 - $150 in components but I also think you are being a little excessive.
From the images that I've seen of the NS-5000 crossover, capacitors appear to be a Mundorf Evo Oil MKP; a number of Bennic's custom UPP MKPs (an excellent capacitor far removed from the yellow MKTs people associate with them); several Clarity Cap PXs; a couple of Mundorf electrolytics, and a Jantzen electrolytic. The latter are presumably used for shunt sections e.g. an LCR notch in the low pass (I see a 300uF value there for example) where it is rather debatable that the large increase in size & cost for MKPs would be worthwhile, even if commercial factors are set aside.
For inductors, there appear to be two transformer core types, presumably to minimise DCR in the LF leg, what looks to be a single ferrite core and two air cores. The impression that gives me is of sensible engineering. If I'd seen dustbin sized air-cores / foils for an LF leg, I would be questioning their competence as commercial designers for a speaker retailing at the figure it does, given the massive increases in size, cost and potential issues with magnetic field interactions in a modestly sized cabinet for an at best questionable 'advantage'. Resistors appear to be standard ceramics, which is no big deal. Fancy resistors do not automatically make for improvements. The impression I get when I look at the images of the filter & knowing how that division of Yamaha tends to work is that a/ the engineers have made sensible engineering choices in terms of the types of components used, and b/ they've spent some time working on & selecting those components, based on what they liked or thought they liked, rather than simply shoving in whatever was expensive.
Last edited:
+ 1 with ScootMose : also see a Mundorf Evo, etc....
It's a bad process, Yamaha has always be a great brand and quite serious, even their old non smps pro amp was sounding very good for our domestic hifis ! In th eold Yamaha pre you couls see Black Gate, Cerafine, etc very good caps !
Well we all know than high-end hifi markett became ridiculous from many décades now : it's all about copy the luxury markett to sell less expensive stuffs but massive quantity of gadgets (car speakers, low priced speakers but who share the brand name of the flagship, etc !) ! It's about selling Dreams !
@ Sumotan : and if you saw the physic of Germaine ! lol !
It's a bad process, Yamaha has always be a great brand and quite serious, even their old non smps pro amp was sounding very good for our domestic hifis ! In th eold Yamaha pre you couls see Black Gate, Cerafine, etc very good caps !
Well we all know than high-end hifi markett became ridiculous from many décades now : it's all about copy the luxury markett to sell less expensive stuffs but massive quantity of gadgets (car speakers, low priced speakers but who share the brand name of the flagship, etc !) ! It's about selling Dreams !
@ Sumotan : and if you saw the physic of Germaine ! lol !
From Yamaha's own page, it would appear the Mundorf Evo Oil has been upped to a Supreme Evo & at least some of the resistors are from their M-Resist Supreme range. Inductors also appear to be Mundorfs. So cheap they're not. The UPPs are made in batches to order also, so again, not what you'd call loose change.
I believe it was a good speaker for the price, at least on the american markett ! bass and mid-bass was good and it is rare for a hi-fi speaker ! but the upper register were too much old hi-fi and PA signed sound : transparent but not acurate with a bad tonal balance for the upper mid and treble register !
To make short : a JBL sound for rock music... I prefered what Boston Acoustic (for instance the VRM 90 which had a true 3d sound) were making at the end of the life of this JBL speaker (it was sold for a long time if I remember ?!). The JBL tweeter was made by Audax in some versions...
I believe Yamaha speakers are very above it in term of S/Q... Quite serious people in Japan listening a lot of Jazz and classic !
Nio, what is surprising me is the new Yamaha seems not to go very low on the paper : and piano, classical... needs it (less the Jazz or Rock but modern electronic music)
Last edited:
Hi Eldam
No yet here's another speaker that's asking for sky high
prices. Very difficult for me to justify it's asking price.
No yet here's another speaker that's asking for sky high
prices. Very difficult for me to justify it's asking price.
The UPP is an MKP capacitor with pure silver leadouts made by Bennic. It's produced to [batch] order and usually made to 1% tolerance. As far as I know it's not available to DIYers, simply because there aren't any distributors who have ordered batches in various values for sale. Pity. Everybody sees the word 'Bennic', think of those cheap yellow MKTs & for some reason assume that's all that they make. Far from it. The UPP and the FPP (essentially the same but with copper leadouts) are as good as a lot of 'boutique' brand name caps. I've used them in several commercial designs & was well-satisfied.
You don't have to justify it. 😉
Component & raw material costs are only a small percentage of what goes into a commercial speaker, & much of the NS-5000 is in fairness custom; it's not just pulled off a shelf. That means Yamaha will probably have spent about $200,000 on tooling & production lines. Then there's the R&D for the cones & drivers in general -both material, and in paying the people who do it & running the test facilities. Ditto for the mouldings for the fancy decompression chambers on the drivers -material cost minimal, design & mould cost very high. Then you have to pay the acoustic designers, the stylists and the engineers -both in design & production teams. After that, you can finally get to the materials & production cost, before finally moving into the distribution network, with its cut, and dealers, with their margins also.
$15,000 retail? I'd say that's fairly reasonable given the above, and speaking in bald economic terms. Is it possible to build something that will be acoustically as good (or better) for less? Yes, almost certainly. Are you / 'we' the target market? No. Would the target market have the ability to do so? In the majority of cases, no. Would most DIYers have the ability to replicate the finish? In most cases, again, no. Different worlds; it's difficult to compare.
Agree with your comment Scott but if we compare what the entry
level of what German Physiks is asking for then the NS 5000 is
considered a bargain. Bennic is from my home town, they've got
a pretty long history in producing caps. One wouldn't be surprised
that lots of boutique stuff one time or another are produced by
Bennic
level of what German Physiks is asking for then the NS 5000 is
considered a bargain. Bennic is from my home town, they've got
a pretty long history in producing caps. One wouldn't be surprised
that lots of boutique stuff one time or another are produced by
Bennic
I never said we (or some of us) can't. I said that as a commercial speaker it's not aimed at DIYers.
Agreed, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Bennic were the OEM for a lot of boutique caps at some time or other; likewise that it seems to represent good value relative to many high-priced speakers.
Agreed, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Bennic were the OEM for a lot of boutique caps at some time or other; likewise that it seems to represent good value relative to many high-priced speakers.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.