Make a sharp looking amp with mediocre performance, some pleasing distortion to stand out against the crowd. Now use boutique caps, resistors, iron, wire, jacks etc.... and charge an arm and a leg.
Deep pockets like shiny expensive things that other people don't have. As others have noted you are selling a brand not an amp. If one retard with money buys your amp then other retards will too, they jump off bridges together don't forget.
just my 2 pennies.
Deep pockets like shiny expensive things that other people don't have. As others have noted you are selling a brand not an amp. If one retard with money buys your amp then other retards will too, they jump off bridges together don't forget.
just my 2 pennies.
Perhaps a little too cynical.. 🙂 Design and make a product you believe in, but in doing so be sure to hit some of the audiophile wants as well. Not all high end products are made by charlatans out to fleece their customers.
I heard quite a lot of good sound at Salon Audio in Montreal last weekend produced by the would be fleecers. At least 3 rooms I think significantly bettered what I am hearing at home in at least some aspects, and 2 others were in the running. It's very rare for me like more rooms than this at a show.... There have been years where I thought every single room sucked.
RMAF next October might be a wise investment if you want to get some instant recognition. More local audio shows may or may not be appropriate depending on their overall product orientation. (Being the only tube guy at a show might not be the best situation as the people interested in tube gear are less likely to be there)
I heard quite a lot of good sound at Salon Audio in Montreal last weekend produced by the would be fleecers. At least 3 rooms I think significantly bettered what I am hearing at home in at least some aspects, and 2 others were in the running. It's very rare for me like more rooms than this at a show.... There have been years where I thought every single room sucked.
RMAF next October might be a wise investment if you want to get some instant recognition. More local audio shows may or may not be appropriate depending on their overall product orientation. (Being the only tube guy at a show might not be the best situation as the people interested in tube gear are less likely to be there)
Hi famousmockingbird,
I have a pair of Xindack MS-3 on the bench now. Maybe the best I've seen from China, but not worth what they are asking for them. They are almost nice, and I haven't heard them yet! At least the chassis isn't flexible, and there is only one component stuck to the chassis with sticky tie wrap holders. If you have to buy a Chinese product, then these might be the best readily available products you could choose.
-Chris
If your take wasn't too close to the truth, you could be seen as being crass. I find that I have to agree with you in many instances. Sad, but true. That is why we see such consumer apathy for sound quality. They gave up on it due to so many outright lies and poor quality goods. Some of the least reliable stuff I've ever encountered has been "high end".
I have a pair of Xindack MS-3 on the bench now. Maybe the best I've seen from China, but not worth what they are asking for them. They are almost nice, and I haven't heard them yet! At least the chassis isn't flexible, and there is only one component stuck to the chassis with sticky tie wrap holders. If you have to buy a Chinese product, then these might be the best readily available products you could choose.
-Chris
I just may have offended the few business men that still care about their product and try and deliver quality to the consumer. These people are few and far between. I myself when asked to build something for someone always try and give them the best bang for their buck, by no means is this making me any sort of money. I build amps for people for fun.
I may have this completely wrong but I was mainly speaking about the masses. The majority of people are advertised and sold crap. The business model to me looks like this;
Make a product that "works" for a limited time (failure of product is job security so they can sell you more junk in a few years).
Make this product "hip" or good looking etc... and spend more on marketing and advertising than on the product. I see rap stars were advertising for I believe it was a JBL sound bar or something gimmicky, like they actually have that in their home lol. My buddy has one and I am forced to listen to music through it when visiting. Sounds like poop.
Then they find how and where they can produce said item for as cheap as possible, usually China.
Now sell a millions of them but the people at the very top make the profit and the people who assemble it make pennies.
Speaking of Chinese amps. I think it was "Douk" but I have had some on my bench where they put this white silicone substance on every solder connection. It's a real PITA because you have to thoroughly clean it off before desoldering.
the white silicone is to reduce the chances of electric shock ,
off topic, washer machines with frontal load all get moldy after 2-3 years and it doesn't wash your clothes. Who cares for the 'environment' if it means wearing dirty clothes?
I think you can live with tubes as a business if you partner with many friends, market in the cities where there're people with real money. look is everything.
off topic, washer machines with frontal load all get moldy after 2-3 years and it doesn't wash your clothes. Who cares for the 'environment' if it means wearing dirty clothes?
I think you can live with tubes as a business if you partner with many friends, market in the cities where there're people with real money. look is everything.
In a week where I've heard more baseless claims than I can remember, this takes the prize. RTFM
http://www.consumerreports.org/front-load-washers/preventing-that-funky-front-loader-mold/
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Which ties back into the original topic quite well in that a misconception about your product can spread fast and hang on for a long time; which can be very hard for a small business to make it through.
A good supply of posts talking about how good your amps are can lead customers to you but a single negative post no matter if right or wrong can lead customers to skip past to the next store.
I was thinking on this topic again yesterday (while in an economics lecture). One of the issues standing in the way of making a living from building tube circuits (aside from capital) is that there is no competitive advantage that can be maintained in the long run. Tube circuits are no longer patented for the most part and so any company that sees sudden success signals to other potential participants that there's money to be made. More participants shifts supply up, which shifts equilibrium price down. So the market price hovers around a modest break-even (priced around marginal cost, like commodities).
Perhaps that is too textbook (and also sophomoric; I'm not pursuing a degree in economics), but I think there's some truth to the idea that tube circuits are largely unprotected from copycats and so the tendency for successful ideas to become commodities is at play. So, what other potential competitive advantages are there?
* Schitt seems to have found a place in the market as a low-cost manufacturer of some tube products (mostly headphone). In a way, they have a first-mover advantage here as they got into large scale production of tube headphone amps as the market began growing (still is, I think). The first mover approach is to grow as fast as possible to raise the barriers to entry for other potential competitors. The caveat is that constant growth and diversification is necessary to stave off nagging competitors (who are motivated by the amount of success they perceive you have).
* Historic companies like McIntosh Labs have brand equity that simply cannot be replicated overnight. Although there are plenty of alternatives in terms of comparable products, McIntosh has done a really good job with their image and catalog (IMO). Failure for them would probably be more self-inflicted than competition-based if it ever comes (selling out, not keeping up with costs, poor management, etc). Their advantage is that they can charge a premium price that would be unrealistic for start-up competitors.
* The most interesting example I can think of is those companies that thrive on outrageous claims and marketing (ie snake oil audio). Their competitive advantage is imaginary, but to a large amount of people that doesn't matter. If a competitive product appears, these companies can simply wave it away because it doesn't have their personal flavor of delusion baked into it. Not that I condone this approach, but there's no denying it's out there. Look at a real audio commodity like cables.
So I think getting into tubes as a business requires a very real evaluation of what competitive advantage your company brings to the market and how it can be protected in the long run (and there are more strategies than those above). In the short run, coming up with a good sounding circuit or a cool look will always sell a few amps, but your success will always invite copycats and push price down.
Perhaps that is too textbook (and also sophomoric; I'm not pursuing a degree in economics), but I think there's some truth to the idea that tube circuits are largely unprotected from copycats and so the tendency for successful ideas to become commodities is at play. So, what other potential competitive advantages are there?
* Schitt seems to have found a place in the market as a low-cost manufacturer of some tube products (mostly headphone). In a way, they have a first-mover advantage here as they got into large scale production of tube headphone amps as the market began growing (still is, I think). The first mover approach is to grow as fast as possible to raise the barriers to entry for other potential competitors. The caveat is that constant growth and diversification is necessary to stave off nagging competitors (who are motivated by the amount of success they perceive you have).
* Historic companies like McIntosh Labs have brand equity that simply cannot be replicated overnight. Although there are plenty of alternatives in terms of comparable products, McIntosh has done a really good job with their image and catalog (IMO). Failure for them would probably be more self-inflicted than competition-based if it ever comes (selling out, not keeping up with costs, poor management, etc). Their advantage is that they can charge a premium price that would be unrealistic for start-up competitors.
* The most interesting example I can think of is those companies that thrive on outrageous claims and marketing (ie snake oil audio). Their competitive advantage is imaginary, but to a large amount of people that doesn't matter. If a competitive product appears, these companies can simply wave it away because it doesn't have their personal flavor of delusion baked into it. Not that I condone this approach, but there's no denying it's out there. Look at a real audio commodity like cables.
So I think getting into tubes as a business requires a very real evaluation of what competitive advantage your company brings to the market and how it can be protected in the long run (and there are more strategies than those above). In the short run, coming up with a good sounding circuit or a cool look will always sell a few amps, but your success will always invite copycats and push price down.
He wants more 2nd order harmonic distortion. Consider it a compliment. Pull back on the global feedback then tell him this 'special limited' version costs $250 more than the 'standard' version.
Exotic coupling caps might help, but only for marketing
Most evil kinds of audiophool marketing tomfoolery:
1. Special selected military-only version made of unobtanium from a secret factory that never existed.
2. Contains rare materials that are nearly impossible to source, which make a sound that others can't touch. For example, I have it on great authority that these capacitors contain Llama ear wax, harvested under full-moon at over 2'000m elevation. Or maybe they contain forbidden toxic PCB's? Whatever floats your boat. Get creative.
3. Cryogenically treated.
There are tons of fools ready to fall over backwards for that last one...
If amplifiers are a commodity like onions or beer, then your competitive edge has to be superior business management. It's not enough to know audio engineering. You need skills in procurement, manufacturing, marketing, customer service, leadership, economics, and enough financial stamina to get through the first few years with little or no profit.
Yes, I am considering a "preamp" with a "voicing stage", i.e. 12-24V B+ powered stage with a 4-gang pot, to control saturation. About 10 years ago I offered to audiophiles "harmonic enhancer" with a dial, but nobody liked it. Go figure! 😀
And of course there is no problem for me to add some military capacitors, like paper in oil with sardines, or even frotoplast ones! 🙂
Totally agree. In a very real sense the tax code can be as important.
It's also my direct experience that a dismissive internal culture regarding the intelligence of your customer is a guaranteed road to eventual failure. Even the most engineering driven successful companies, for example Bryston, don't ask "please stop, only idiots woo-woo themselves into believing we sound better". Anyone going into the tube business with that perspective is free to deposit their launch funds into my account and get the same end result minus years of stress and heartache.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.