Need help with crossover type!

[gedlee]

"And I wouldn't be too reliant on help from most people here, who get notoriously vague when it comes to actual practical detail, IME. "

Vagueness comes from lack of time to respond properly, or an unwillingness to devote such time. I often suffer from both these maladies, but it is not malicious.

It encourages people to "look further" on their own.

 

[eriksquires]

"And I wouldn't be too reliant on help from most people here, who get notoriously vague when it comes to actual practical detail, IME. "

Vagueness comes from lack of time to respond properly, or an unwillingness to devote such time. I often suffer from both these maladies, but it is not malicious.

It encourages people to "look further" on their own.

It's not like anyone here gets paid to meet any particular standard of replies either.

I personally find the quality of the replies has much to do with the quality of the question. Simple specific questions get much better answers than "I bought all these parts, now what?"


Best,

E

 

[picowallspeaker]

I just hope that those Pyle midrange are not closed-back types
😡
😕




😀

 

[picowallspeaker]

Yeah, itsme
😛
And, yes, I didn't say that is vaguely a design of the seventies ( 1970s)
Where wisdom meets people
😀
and occasionally those fat ugly speakers would meet the demand for people...
asking what ?
So next generation, the eighties ( 1980s )
...
Nowadays: do you want to go fast ( or, eih, F.A.S.T. )??
Get a mini DSP ( guessing you're liquified )
Lack of money ? 4 * class D amps !

🙂

 

[system7]

All this talk "butters no parsnips" and "fixes no roof tiles", boys. 😀

I've been busy. I think we need a good idea here. Here's my old Celestion Ditton 44 in all it's worn-out pomp! Not a bad 3 way, as it goes.

I was struggling with this combo, and a poor impedance from the mid circuit. So I've lifted some Celestion ideas. We can build the top end around the tweeter. The bottom end is doable with a coil and a Zobel. And it all works quite nicely.

Now bear in mind, this is just proof of concept. The bass circuit is VERY driver dependent. But Zobels are easy to calculate.
Impedance Equalization (L-Pad) Circuit Designer / Calculator

 

[Itsme]

Hello Guys,

" I am back" after a bad flu virus and 104 deg. temperature. Still not up to snuff, but almost back to normal.
Great stuff Steve, I really appreciate you taking your time to help me figure out a good crossover for my "Muddled mess".😛 there was 2 different choices of 6 1/2 Pyle's Mid's, the sealed back and non sealed. I chose the non sealed to hopefully get some midbass "pop" out of them. "Pico" for giving me the idea of upgrading to 8 ohm speakers and mounting x-over out of the box, which I also wanted to ask any ideas as how and where to mount the x-over outside the box?
My speakers and parts just showed up yesterday so I am excited to get this project going again.

 

[picowallspeaker]

WOW ! I Like the Pyle brand logo too!!
"how" the whole thing (beast) behaves ?
Does it respond quick !?!
ANd..what a lab !!
You're more on the electronic side of the thing ( audio)...
And you start with full throttle in loudspeakers...I don't have the speed that you have !
And now what have you done ? Did you put the open back mid inside the same enclosure with the woofer ? I guess you didn't. SO that's a closed back mid.
Now you want to get insights of mounting the things rightly: My preference goes to separated elements which works beautifully for a DIYer; once you try to enclose all in a box you often ( and it's 99 % ) lose all the "magic".
That is true especially for loudspeakers, since you refere to the sound as to the thing created by LS's - which happens only in an environment ( the room ).

 

[Itsme]

WOW ! I Like the Pyle brand logo too!!

I like the look of logo, just not sure i want to advertise "Pyle" on it though??
So I thought I would see what it looked like without the "Pyle" not sure I like it either? Plus the woofer screw holes didn't line up correctly to keep it straight.

"how" the whole thing (beast) behaves ?
Does it respond quick !?!

Haven't "built" hooked up x-over yet.

ANd..what a lab !!

Thanks!

You're more on the electronic side of the thing ( audio)...
And you start with full throttle in loudspeakers...I don't have the speed that you have !

Yeah, Done electronics for long while, but first time building a speaker. Built a few amps though! lol

And now what have you done ? Did you put the open back mid inside the same enclosure with the woofer ? I guess you didn't. SO that's a closed back mid.

Yes, they are open back mids. wanted some midbass from them so need cone to move a little.😛

Now you want to get insights of mounting the things rightly: My preference goes to separated elements which works beautifully for a DIYer; once you try to enclose all in a box you often ( and it's 99 % ) lose all the "magic".
That is true especially for loudspeakers, since you refere to the sound as to the thing created by LS's - which happens only in an environment ( the room ).

Sounds like a good idea but were and how to locate the elements is what I am trying to figure out. At this point I have 3 sets of speaker wire hanging out the back of cabinet🙄

 

[picowallspeaker]

Well, the first thing is to check if it sounds ok. All the previous talks was referring to the old woofer, now you have a new one in the old box.
Then the midrange, if it's open basket it needs a sub-enclosure if you house it in the same box, but you subtract volume from the box.
If you cover the two holes, you can put both mid & tw on the outside.

 

[system7]

This Qts=0.67 Pyle PPA15 looks problematic to me, and here's what the other drivers ought to be, if the links work:

Pyle PPA15: Pyle PPA15 15" PA Speaker
Pyle PPA6: Pyle PPA6 6-1/2" PA Speaker
Dayton DC28F: Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter

The Pyle drivers are very vaguely specified, but not too outrageously efficient at least. We've got the off-the shelf filter:

Which we know isn't going to work well first time. Because it probably needs to be something like this:

 

[Itsme]

Well, the first thing is to check if it sounds ok. All the previous talks was referring to the old woofer, now you have a new one in the old box.
Then the midrange, if it's open basket it needs a sub-enclosure if you house it in the same box, but you subtract volume from the box.
If you cover the two holes, you can put both mid & tw on the outside.

Well "Dog Biscuits!" I didn't even think about the open back midrange being effected in open box by woofer.
Well as much as I would love to build a separate box tweeters and mids, that is one thing I am not great at "woodworking". To impatient! I bet you guys would have never guessed I was impatient.😀

 

[Itsme]

This Qts=0.67 Pyle PPA15 looks problematic to me, and here's what the other drivers ought to be, if the links work:

Pyle PPA15: Pyle PPA15 15" PA Speaker
Pyle PPA6: Pyle PPA6 6-1/2" PA Speaker
Dayton DC28F: Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter

The Pyle drivers are very vaguely specified, but not too outrageously efficient at least. We've got the off-the shelf filter:

Ha! Tell me about it. but they were cheap. And they have to be better then what I was working with? lol

Steve, you are a "glutton for punishment" even giving me your time.🙂

 

[Itsme]

Which we know isn't going to work well first time. Because it probably needs to be something like this:

So I have most of these componets in stock to modify these crossovers to what you have here. I am good with circuits at least. So you think this circuit is pretty close to what I need then? I can build one and see how it sounds and let you guys know afterwhile.
Another question is the room these speakers are in is not so hot acoustically. If I test the speaker with modded crossover and use the spectrum analyzer with pink noise, will it still give me a good idea if speaker is flat? 😕

 

[system7]

I don't know where we are going on this one, TBH. A lot of mission creep involved. I was initially trying to reuse existing components, but the mid rolloff section needs more and new components.

What is reasonable for a 15" polycone bass is not going to work with a paper one. Polycones often get away with a simple coil and a Zobel imprdance correction (say 7.5R and 10uF for 0.6mH Le) because they can have a tidy natural rolloff.

I'd still like to see the original Fisher schematic, because an evolution of ideas is often easier than a radical redesign. I don't know the exact details, but Eminence do a 1.6kHz filter for their 15" PA basses which is just a (guesses...) 2.5mH coil and 22uF capacitor.