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This seems a rather DIY friendly option for cloning. Anybody thought about this ?
Positive reviews in Stereophile:
"The Sun is the finest stand-mounted speaker I've heard: a modern classic."
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/trenner-friedl-sun-loudspeaker#ecJI1J1x2RRRSKwF.97
The driver is a single 5" coaxial unit: Seas Prestige L12RE/XFC (H1602) 5" Alum/Fabric Coaxial
And it is readily available, for example, from Madisound. Yes. it's a pricey driver but if it sounds good...
Positive reviews in Stereophile:
"The Sun is the finest stand-mounted speaker I've heard: a modern classic."
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/trenner-friedl-sun-loudspeaker#ecJI1J1x2RRRSKwF.97
The driver is a single 5" coaxial unit: Seas Prestige L12RE/XFC (H1602) 5" Alum/Fabric Coaxial
And it is readily available, for example, from Madisound. Yes. it's a pricey driver but if it sounds good...
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But "Finest stand-mounted speaker that I have heard" is a bit strange quote
What about these stand-mounts with co-axials?
TAD Compact Reference CR1 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
KEF Reference 201/2 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers
Perhaps "one of the best miniature speakers"?
What do you folks say about the placement here - rear-firing reflex port blocked
What about these stand-mounts with co-axials?
TAD Compact Reference CR1 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
KEF Reference 201/2 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers
Perhaps "one of the best miniature speakers"?
What do you folks say about the placement here - rear-firing reflex port blocked
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That placement is clearly bollocks. But I'd be interested if anybody has heard this driver, the concept of a coaxial is very attractive but implementation has always been questioned. I'm in the mood to build a small stand-mount speaker.
Seas H 1602 (163,8 $) is a fine unit with an obvious advantage of being able to be put into a small cabinet. Otherwise you could do better for less money with Seas H 1152 (65,3 $) and Seas H 1280-06 (36,7 $).
Madisound has labeled H 1152 as 4,5" speaker (Sd=55cm2), and H 1602 as 5"( Sd=47 cm2), although these appear to have the same cone diameter and frame.
What's to be heard from a driver like this? The same as any other decent Seas unit with a little more HF diffraction issue due to tweeter being trapped like this. The sound is whatever you make of it, XO wise.
Madisound has labeled H 1152 as 4,5" speaker (Sd=55cm2), and H 1602 as 5"( Sd=47 cm2), although these appear to have the same cone diameter and frame.
What's to be heard from a driver like this? The same as any other decent Seas unit with a little more HF diffraction issue due to tweeter being trapped like this. The sound is whatever you make of it, XO wise.
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On the Parts Express Tech Talk the same subject arose. Read message #15 for a link to the Seas version of this speaker. Might be a good place to start any clone versions.
$3,500 a pair for two $164 drivers. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/L12RE_XFC_AppNote.pdf
$3,500 a pair for two $164 drivers. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/L12RE_XFC_AppNote.pdf
Ah, but with a DIY build using affordable readily available ( i.e. non OEM) drivers, you don't get the prestige and pride of ownership of an overpriced esoteric - often short-lived collector's piece.
and perhaps that quote missed the qualifier "I've heard this week" ?
and perhaps that quote missed the qualifier "I've heard this week" ?
best stand mount he ever heard?But "Finest stand-mounted speaker that I have heard" is a bit strange quote
What about these stand-mounts with co-axials?
TAD Compact Reference CR1 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
KEF Reference 201/2 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers
Perhaps "one of the best miniature speakers"?
What do you folks say about the placement here - rear-firing reflex port blocked
not a chance
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Joined 2009
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ha! - well these magazines are mostly full of c'rap but it still looks like an interesting driver which we can buy off the internet (the TAD and KEF's Uni-q drivers are captive and we can't buy them).
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I found the measurements also interesting. Given Seas specs for the tweeter, I never thought the finished product would measure as flat as Stereophile measured.
I am a big fan of designing speakers for their intended location, and if you design a speaker for a bookcase, there are some good advantages. Don't block the port though! What's the point?? 😀 😀
I think the Seas cabinet design uses a front-firing slot instead. Makes much more sense to me.
Best,
Erik
I am a big fan of designing speakers for their intended location, and if you design a speaker for a bookcase, there are some good advantages. Don't block the port though! What's the point?? 😀 😀
I think the Seas cabinet design uses a front-firing slot instead. Makes much more sense to me.
Best,
Erik
Aren't KEF Q100s still $299/pr? You could buy a pair for the drivers at that price. It's probably better than the Seas unit. Though that's the best measured performance of a Seas coax based system I've yet seen.
id say that the only thing I trust from Stereophile are their measurements.
that dreadful 'recommend' list is just funny
you,
Yeah, that's usually my feelings as well. This tweeter measurement however.... I almost want to build a pair to prove them wrong. 🙂
Maybe they got tired of me endlessly badgering them for the "Stereophile Curve"
Erik
Yeah, that's usually my feelings as well. This tweeter measurement however.... I almost want to build a pair to prove them wrong. 🙂
Maybe they got tired of me endlessly badgering them for the "Stereophile Curve"
Erik
Thanks, Silver! I had always wondered what the effects of that moving outer surface would have on the tweeter wavefront!
I think some modern coaxials may be better than that (TAD, KEF) but not sure. Still, I have to say that for form-factor, coaxials have significant benefits! 🙂 A small, wide range cube I can hide in my book case for surrounds and stuff. Perfect!
Erik
I think some modern coaxials may be better than that (TAD, KEF) but not sure. Still, I have to say that for form-factor, coaxials have significant benefits! 🙂 A small, wide range cube I can hide in my book case for surrounds and stuff. Perfect!
Erik
Hi YouKnowYou,
I'm sure the people at TAD are very fine folks indeed, who take pride in their work and no negative comment was meant. I apologize if that read ambiguously like a snide remark.
For me to be sure, I'd have to listen to it. 🙂 I've never even seen them. I know I'm not the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval or anything, but I do a disservice if I pass along comments (negative or positive) without personal experience.
If they would like to send me a pair of speakers to listen to, I'll happily send them my address..... 😀 😀 😀
Best,
Erik
I'm sure the people at TAD are very fine folks indeed, who take pride in their work and no negative comment was meant. I apologize if that read ambiguously like a snide remark.
For me to be sure, I'd have to listen to it. 🙂 I've never even seen them. I know I'm not the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval or anything, but I do a disservice if I pass along comments (negative or positive) without personal experience.
If they would like to send me a pair of speakers to listen to, I'll happily send them my address..... 😀 😀 😀
Best,
Erik
"The three-way acoustically coaxial monitor uses a minimum diffraction co-axial midrange/tweeter driver seated in a directivity control waveguide. The innovative solution allows acoustically concealing the woofers seated in the front enclosure under the waveguide, creating a large continuous front baffle surface for mid and high frequencies"
"When the woofer cone surface forms the waveguide for the high-frequency radiator, intermodulation distortion tends to be larger than it is for designs with a fixed horn located in the woofer’s apex. The intermodulation can be reduced by directing low frequencies to a separate woofer driver, using the coaxial driver as a midrange-tweeter radiator. The intermodulation distortion problems typical for these designs can be significantly reduced with a physically displaced woofer in a three-way arrangement."
R&D Stories: Genelec 8351 Acoustically Coaxial SAM System
"When the woofer cone surface forms the waveguide for the high-frequency radiator, intermodulation distortion tends to be larger than it is for designs with a fixed horn located in the woofer’s apex. The intermodulation can be reduced by directing low frequencies to a separate woofer driver, using the coaxial driver as a midrange-tweeter radiator. The intermodulation distortion problems typical for these designs can be significantly reduced with a physically displaced woofer in a three-way arrangement."
R&D Stories: Genelec 8351 Acoustically Coaxial SAM System
I would maybe hazard a guess, not that it matters much, but the 4 small ports on the back of the Sun in that photo, may not be actually blocked. There could be space behind the speaker to the back of the cabinet. Maybe not ideal....Besides, it also being more than likely a promotional photo, like so many others we see, usually lack quite a few things that would be done differently in reality.
So much fuss though over this speaker, until one actually hears it in their own room and gear, why knock it down-or Stereophile's review either, at least Ken did listen to it. FWIW.
So much fuss though over this speaker, until one actually hears it in their own room and gear, why knock it down-or Stereophile's review either, at least Ken did listen to it. FWIW.