Gave a 2nd chance to the 760NEO but i'm officially discarding them. They are not bad, but it doesnt suit my needs. I need a solid 500hz and the 760NEO, even with 7mil shim and moderate listening volume, cannot deliver that.
So basically, i have 2 options left:
950PB
or
a group of cone drivers (line array)
So basically, i have 2 options left:
950PB
or
a group of cone drivers (line array)
Did you think about an array of B&G Neo 10 or Neo 8S ? (instead the Radian) ! I remember than Greg from Florida made a good Neo 10 + Rall tweeter design ! the bass was a Scan Speak !
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no havent think about that, but the curve is scary:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-715-bohlender-graebener-neo10-specifications-47008.pdf
looks very weak around 400-800hz
have to be loaded with 2 l for a 92 dB/2.83v between 250 and 6KhZ... (datasheet, but never heard it !)
If i don't go with the 950PB, i'll probably make a line array with one model from the following:
3fe22
4fe32
8fe200
(all FaitalPro)
or Airborne FR151
I sure won't spend a fortune on the midranges... Already got most of the budget on the sub/woofers and tweeters! Especially if i go with the RAAL route
3fe22
4fe32
8fe200
(all FaitalPro)
or Airborne FR151
I sure won't spend a fortune on the midranges... Already got most of the budget on the sub/woofers and tweeters! Especially if i go with the RAAL route
To be safe with the 18FH500, i need to have drivers that are still in their comfort zone at 450hz. That's probably the limit of the 950PB, and the 3fe22 might not be the numero uno choice either...
8fe200 and FR151 would be good, safe, choices but then i might lose a little sparkle & resolution on the upper end. But then again, if i'm going with the air motion transformer tweeters it won't really be a problem. But with the small RAAL, i might struggle with the limits, again.
3-ways! Always compromises. Always.
8fe200 and FR151 would be good, safe, choices but then i might lose a little sparkle & resolution on the upper end. But then again, if i'm going with the air motion transformer tweeters it won't really be a problem. But with the small RAAL, i might struggle with the limits, again.
3-ways! Always compromises. Always.
That what could look like a line of fr151 (but a dozen or so instead of only 8)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That is the specs and graph of the FaitalPro 18FH500, bytheway
Seems to be very reasonnable to think of using it up to 500hz, especially if brickwalled.
So far, that driver looks fantastic. Both on paper and on hand. Can't wait to try 6 of them in sealed enclosures! 😱
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Seems to be very reasonnable to think of using it up to 500hz, especially if brickwalled.
So far, that driver looks fantastic. Both on paper and on hand. Can't wait to try 6 of them in sealed enclosures! 😱
Ok, let's have some fun. 
SPL BATTLE!
.: Microphone at exactly 2 meters from both contenders.
.: On-axis +/- 2 deg
.: Calibrated RTA + mic
.: Calibrated wattmeter to monitor the (real) r.m.s. power consumption
.: Brickwall xover 480-4120hz
.: No EQ
.: Only music, no sweeps or tone (don't want to burn coils tonight!)
In the left corner tonight: a line array of 8x FR151 from Airborne.
Here is the results:
102.6 db @ 1.3w/2m (in-room)
SPL BATTLE!
.: Microphone at exactly 2 meters from both contenders.
.: On-axis +/- 2 deg
.: Calibrated RTA + mic
.: Calibrated wattmeter to monitor the (real) r.m.s. power consumption
.: Brickwall xover 480-4120hz
.: No EQ
.: Only music, no sweeps or tone (don't want to burn coils tonight!)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
In the left corner tonight: a line array of 8x FR151 from Airborne.
Here is the results:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
102.6 db @ 1.3w/2m (in-room)
On the right corner tonight: the Radian 950PB w/5mil shim and Beryllium!
The results:
106.4db @ 1.0w/2m (in-room)
I had more headroom, i didnt push it as much as the line array. To be honest, it was quite scary and irritating to listen brickwalled mid at that sound pressure level 😱
But, yeah, the thing is damn powerful. Oh, not so bad for something hornless, uh? 🙄
The results:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
106.4db @ 1.0w/2m (in-room)
I had more headroom, i didnt push it as much as the line array. To be honest, it was quite scary and irritating to listen brickwalled mid at that sound pressure level 😱
But, yeah, the thing is damn powerful. Oh, not so bad for something hornless, uh? 🙄
So i think my expections are good: 115-120db at peaks @ listening position (3.7m distance) with all speakers connected.
Since i tend to boost the EQ in the first octave, i'll end up having the 120db peaks from the 18FH500. In fact, the ''SPL-bottleneck'' will probably be the tweeters.
But, seriously, 115-120db @ 3.7m for domestic use, that is just insane. Glad to know i'll be very far from any distortion levels at low/moderate volume.
Since i tend to boost the EQ in the first octave, i'll end up having the 120db peaks from the 18FH500. In fact, the ''SPL-bottleneck'' will probably be the tweeters.
But, seriously, 115-120db @ 3.7m for domestic use, that is just insane. Glad to know i'll be very far from any distortion levels at low/moderate volume.
Anybody here ever tried a BMS ?
Neodymium Compression Drivers
Their 4599ND seems unbelievable on paper.
Overview
Neodymium Compression Drivers
Their 4599ND seems unbelievable on paper.
Overview
naked 950?
let me see if i understand this:
You wish to use a 950PB without a horn, and mate it with triple 18"
woofers? at 500 Hz ?
let me see if i understand this:
You wish to use a 950PB without a horn, and mate it with triple 18"
woofers? at 500 Hz ?
300db/oct ?
And, furthermore, you are using some sort of dsp based crossover at 300db/octave ?
Did I read that correctly ??
And, furthermore, you are using some sort of dsp based crossover at 300db/octave ?
Did I read that correctly ??
If you do decide to use that hornless mid, with array bass and array tweeters...
Am I the only one who would think it would be a nightmare to mismatch point source to line source? The bass won't act as a line source, so that's the least of my worries, but that top end will act different. Sure you can get the SPL level to match at the listening position, but what's spread out into the room will come back without any balance at all.
To me it seems like a waste of funds.
Am I the only one who would think it would be a nightmare to mismatch point source to line source? The bass won't act as a line source, so that's the least of my worries, but that top end will act different. Sure you can get the SPL level to match at the listening position, but what's spread out into the room will come back without any balance at all.
To me it seems like a waste of funds.
Top end might be a problem, indeed. That's why before building anything i'll do some tests.
I tried it before I knew any better. Sounded surprisingly good. If I were trying a hornless compression mid I think it would be a logical extension to use one of the smaller neo compression drivers for the the treble band.
Horns are actually your "Immersive" answer
I would have to agree with the POOH here, but would also like to add my contribution to what it takes to get that immersive sound. A 4-way, horn based mid range, and if not horn mid-bass, at least enough direct radiators to match the output potential of the horns. Sub bass should be separate and again should be able to move huge amounts of air, and should be able to "load the room". You really don't need multiple tweeters, where one high-quality unit per side should suffice. Ultra steep crossover slopes are also a no-no. An analogue based active crossovers with 18 db/oct slopes should be the ultimate, and also required would be to match each one of the 4 stereo amps to the type of speaker used for the band. You want to have pretty much unlimited dynamic compression. You also want to have very little in the way of room reflections, particularly early ones, and this is where the huge benefit of having a very large horn mid range comes into play.
That's pretty much it, in a nutshell. Best of luck in your audio endeavors.
I would have to agree with the POOH here, but would also like to add my contribution to what it takes to get that immersive sound. A 4-way, horn based mid range, and if not horn mid-bass, at least enough direct radiators to match the output potential of the horns. Sub bass should be separate and again should be able to move huge amounts of air, and should be able to "load the room". You really don't need multiple tweeters, where one high-quality unit per side should suffice. Ultra steep crossover slopes are also a no-no. An analogue based active crossovers with 18 db/oct slopes should be the ultimate, and also required would be to match each one of the 4 stereo amps to the type of speaker used for the band. You want to have pretty much unlimited dynamic compression. You also want to have very little in the way of room reflections, particularly early ones, and this is where the huge benefit of having a very large horn mid range comes into play.
That's pretty much it, in a nutshell. Best of luck in your audio endeavors.
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