I am building a mobile rack to test out and demo my diy ESL panels and I’m hoping to get some recommendations for a pre-amp or comments on my proposed set up.
I want great sound for demonstrations purposes, but don’t have much in the budget. So is not going to be an audiophile dream rig, but I’d like to get it as good as I can.
The panels are fairly small, the diaphragm surface area being about 4” x 22” per speaker and I will be driving a sub separately in a 2.5 set up.
Right now I have a Behringer DCX2496 to play with the crossover point for the sub, and a Peavey M-2600 to drive the panels.
I want to run -- laptop -- pre-amp -- DCX2496 -- M-2600 — Speakers
So I’m looking for a pre-amp for “hopefully" under $600 that is rack mounted and has XLR’s out.
Doesn’t need a million features and component hook ups just a way to bring my laptop output to line level and sound solid.
I’ve been looking at specs till I’m blue in the face but I just don’t trust the numbers on the mass market crap thats out there.
I’m really hoping someone has some great recommendation of a new or used preamp make that fits my usage.
I want great sound for demonstrations purposes, but don’t have much in the budget. So is not going to be an audiophile dream rig, but I’d like to get it as good as I can.
The panels are fairly small, the diaphragm surface area being about 4” x 22” per speaker and I will be driving a sub separately in a 2.5 set up.
Right now I have a Behringer DCX2496 to play with the crossover point for the sub, and a Peavey M-2600 to drive the panels.
I want to run -- laptop -- pre-amp -- DCX2496 -- M-2600 — Speakers
So I’m looking for a pre-amp for “hopefully" under $600 that is rack mounted and has XLR’s out.
Doesn’t need a million features and component hook ups just a way to bring my laptop output to line level and sound solid.
I’ve been looking at specs till I’m blue in the face but I just don’t trust the numbers on the mass market crap thats out there.
I’m really hoping someone has some great recommendation of a new or used preamp make that fits my usage.
Despite misgivings, I terminated my life with a pre-amp a few years ago. Last one I used was an Adcom that is just a passive switching box with volume and balance controls. Now THAT is clean. Hard to find one but easy to make your own. Think about it.
Currently, I have a dedicated music laptop (MacBook Air, second hand, of course). My FM tuner, measurement mic, and other analog sources input into the laptop via a ADC (bought one at Salvation Army for $8 but a Behringer for $23 is just fine... don't believe what you hear about megadollar DACs). I control the analog input using QuickTime set to "Record Audio".
I could use the headphone jack analog output. I can hear the screams from audiophiles out there, but seems to be as clean as you'd want.
But what I do use is about $30, called a Breeze. It does an undemanding conversion: USB to AES/SPDIF to Behringer A. (While the laptop can control the volume, I prefer to hoard my bits to the end and so I have a 4-gang volume pot south of the Behringer.)
My old and complicated music collection (in Apple Lossless and kept on a 128GB SD chip which conveniently plugs into the dedicated Air SD socket) is kept as a FileMaker db which also plays the files (at least if you remain with FM12, before they nastily "deprecated" the player feature).
Works really nicely.
Ben
Currently, I have a dedicated music laptop (MacBook Air, second hand, of course). My FM tuner, measurement mic, and other analog sources input into the laptop via a ADC (bought one at Salvation Army for $8 but a Behringer for $23 is just fine... don't believe what you hear about megadollar DACs). I control the analog input using QuickTime set to "Record Audio".
I could use the headphone jack analog output. I can hear the screams from audiophiles out there, but seems to be as clean as you'd want.
But what I do use is about $30, called a Breeze. It does an undemanding conversion: USB to AES/SPDIF to Behringer A. (While the laptop can control the volume, I prefer to hoard my bits to the end and so I have a 4-gang volume pot south of the Behringer.)
My old and complicated music collection (in Apple Lossless and kept on a 128GB SD chip which conveniently plugs into the dedicated Air SD socket) is kept as a FileMaker db which also plays the files (at least if you remain with FM12, before they nastily "deprecated" the player feature).
Works really nicely.
Ben
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As a preamp junkie I can recommend some old NIKKO preamps, and Sanyo Plus preamp.
I do have some Onkyo and Yamaha, but I find them less transparent then Sanyo.
I do have some Onkyo and Yamaha, but I find them less transparent then Sanyo.
I saw a N.Pass electronic XO in the swap meet section. ( made for OB )
It's given for 1000 $ but you can skip the preamplifier and the DCX 🙄
It's given for 1000 $ but you can skip the preamplifier and the DCX 🙄
Thanks guys for weighing in... I was thinking maybe I should go optical out to a good mixer board since I'm only running digital for demo, and saving the preamp for another day.
Ben, does the Breeze minimize phase jitter and power noise from the USB? I can't find any info on the maker other than e-bay units from china.
Ben, does the Breeze minimize phase jitter and power noise from the USB? I can't find any info on the maker other than e-bay units from china.
When I searched a year or so ago, the Breeze seemed to have suitable latest chipset and other factors and some choices of inputs and outputs.
I believe the jitter and noise question you raise is addressed by having an asynchronous device (which means it has its own internal clock, triggered by the USB signal) or some such factor. Not sure about the Breeze but pretty sure not worth worrying about.
Hum between units in a system can be handled with $15 isolating transformers from Pyramid. They measure great. No kidding. I use one in one of my music systems but never had need otherwise ever.
I think of myself as a careful listener with a full-range ESL panels. While I can't vouch for every bad design in the world, I have never had a digital device in my system that was anything except wonderful including my 15 yr old Sound Blaster DAC from the Salvation Army store for just a few dollars. And that includes the headphone amps in my Apple laptops.
I measure stuff and look at FR, THD, and S/N. But my criteria relate to audible or system-wide performance; I don't say, "this DAC is lousy because it has only a 75dB S/N".
Ben
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What about one of these?
TEAC UD-301 USB Audio Digital Analog Converter (Black)
Would bump a digital input to line level output with balance XLR3s. Then I could convert it back to unbalanced just before it hits my bias supply to the ESL panel. Only issue is I'd have to ditch my peavy M-2600 in favor of a balanced amp for this to make sense.
TEAC UD-301 USB Audio Digital Analog Converter (Black)
Would bump a digital input to line level output with balance XLR3s. Then I could convert it back to unbalanced just before it hits my bias supply to the ESL panel. Only issue is I'd have to ditch my peavy M-2600 in favor of a balanced amp for this to make sense.
Balanced inputs nice but not worth bothering about unless hum or long distances are an issue.
Just buy XLR-to-RCA cables.
Ben
After way too many hours spent reading reviews and specs I went and picked up the Emotiva Audio DC-1 to double as a DAC and preamp. I have an unusual ESL design that is going to be extra susceptible to hum and noise. I have some doubts to how well my old unbalanced M-2600 amp is going to work but at least I think this should give me some great balanced source.
Sums subs play hum loud. But what do you mean about your ESL is susceptible???
No material advantage to balanced cables in any decent home setting (see my earlier post).
Good to have units in your system matched. So, if you had the most perfect speakers in the world, a good match would pre-amps and amps made around 1975. While I'm not serious about the exact date, there are all kinds of aspects at the acoustic end that need more attention (felt rug under layers?).
Ben
It's an experimental unit, the panels themselves are conical and focus the constructive interference to create a kind of virtual headphone experience. Two small sweet spots focused at the left and right ears, a cross between headphones and near field monitors. Iv'e built the unit with standard drivers and the experience is like headphones with the sound image outside of the head. It's strange but really cool. Binaural recording sound unreal and stereo is more like the holographic sound you get with ESLs. Now I'm trying to get it to work with actual ESLs.
Very interesting. Good luck.
Sensitivity per se is not an issue if you manage your "gain management" properly.
Do you mean you have an exceptional S/N at the listening position? That would need care.
Do you know about the Bauer circuit that introduces a bit of crosstalk shaped in relation to live-sound head "shadow" for headphone listening?
Ben
I mean your head is pretty much inside the speaker ring, so most of the things we can disregard for a room are audible at the listening position. Eventually there will be dedicated hardware to address this but for the prototype I'm just trying to minimize noise where I can.
I didn't know about The Bauer circuit, but it's interesting. I am running a separate sub for the same reasons. Most of this design was conceived for use in positional audio, kind of an ambisonic, binaural hybrid. Originally the electrostatic rings were gong to be divided into 8 channels for ambisonic playback but the whole thing was getting crazy gear heavy so I bumped it down to binaural when I found out how well the first unit, which is kind of a parabolic line array, mimicked headphones.
I must misunderstand. Room noise harms s/n and so reduces your need for care across the system.
Or are you talking about residual grundge? Grudge in the final stage(s) can't be managed as easily by gain management.
B
I'm talking mainly about hiss.. and this is mostly experiential from my line array. Maybe there will be no issue when I go pure digital to to the ESLs.
Good question. It's all in pieces right now as I'm reworking some parts of the rig. When I get the mobile rack set up I'll hook it all up and do some trouble shooting. I also have an annoying frequency drop in the upper mid vocal range that I need to address. Don't know if it is a component issue or something inherent in the parabolic configuration.
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