I have bought a pair of SDX12 subwoofers a year ago, have built enclosures for them and power them using a Crown XLS2500 amp in stereo lowpass.
Recently I've noticed that the left subwoofer had started making a rattling noise at high volumes, but only sometimes. It had stopped making that noise for a couple months, but last night I turned on the amp for my normal speakers while my subwoofer amp was already on and it made a frighteningly loud popping sound.. The rubber around the cone actually got marks from the grill that was installed in front of the driver, so it came out pretty far. Since this happened I've been noticing this rattling sound again.
Just now I was pushing the cone in and found that it's hitting something metal. I took out the driver but didn't see anything, so it has to be inside of it. I guess maybe the voice coil? Can someone confirm?
It happens most easily (less force applied) when pushing the lower right of the driver. I turned it around when re-installing it into the enclosure, making the damaged spot now be at the top left. Was this a good move, or was it better where it was? So far I've been noticing the same amount of rattling.
I am in Canada and paid $512 for the pair of drivers. I am wondering: is this repairable? Can it be done by myself, or does it have to be done by a professional? And would it be a better idea to just buy a new, different subwoofer driver?
If buying a new driver is the better thing to do, I would like to use my existing enclosures and just swap the driver instead of making a new one, so let me know and I will list my enclosure specifications. I will also want to use it in conjunction with my other still working SDX12 subwoofer (right channel).
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Sorry if I am unclear anywhere in my post: let me know if clarification is required. I typed this up just before bed after having my spirits sunken by this issue. Really hoping to find a solution.. As for a budget on a new subwoofer: the cheaper the better, obviously, but I'd want something as good as if not better than the SDX12 for sure. And it must be 12". I assume all 12" drivers will fit into the same hole? Or do they vary slightly?
I am continuing to use my rattling subwoofer. I have turned down the equalizer that the left subwoofer is connected to until the point where it didn't rattle in my test music file, though I cannot speak for other songs.. Will my continued usage causing it to rattle damage it even more?
I should also mention that the rattling is inaudible with my other speakers on. It does not bother me at all. If continuing to use it will not cause it to get damaged even more, I will have absolutely no issues in doing so. I actually really hope that is the case.. Would save me a lot of hassle and money
Below are pictures of my equalizer setting for the rattling sub: the first picture is its normal (before adjustment) setting and the second is the new (after adjustment) setting. (If I don't use this equalizer, I'll have to turn the gain up on the subwoofer amp which does NOT have a subsonic filter, making my subs over-exert at the volumes I listen to, so instead of getting a lowpass filter I just turn down the overall gain and boost the higher frequencies.)
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Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Recently I've noticed that the left subwoofer had started making a rattling noise at high volumes, but only sometimes. It had stopped making that noise for a couple months, but last night I turned on the amp for my normal speakers while my subwoofer amp was already on and it made a frighteningly loud popping sound.. The rubber around the cone actually got marks from the grill that was installed in front of the driver, so it came out pretty far. Since this happened I've been noticing this rattling sound again.
Just now I was pushing the cone in and found that it's hitting something metal. I took out the driver but didn't see anything, so it has to be inside of it. I guess maybe the voice coil? Can someone confirm?
It happens most easily (less force applied) when pushing the lower right of the driver. I turned it around when re-installing it into the enclosure, making the damaged spot now be at the top left. Was this a good move, or was it better where it was? So far I've been noticing the same amount of rattling.
I am in Canada and paid $512 for the pair of drivers. I am wondering: is this repairable? Can it be done by myself, or does it have to be done by a professional? And would it be a better idea to just buy a new, different subwoofer driver?
If buying a new driver is the better thing to do, I would like to use my existing enclosures and just swap the driver instead of making a new one, so let me know and I will list my enclosure specifications. I will also want to use it in conjunction with my other still working SDX12 subwoofer (right channel).
---
Sorry if I am unclear anywhere in my post: let me know if clarification is required. I typed this up just before bed after having my spirits sunken by this issue. Really hoping to find a solution.. As for a budget on a new subwoofer: the cheaper the better, obviously, but I'd want something as good as if not better than the SDX12 for sure. And it must be 12". I assume all 12" drivers will fit into the same hole? Or do they vary slightly?
I am continuing to use my rattling subwoofer. I have turned down the equalizer that the left subwoofer is connected to until the point where it didn't rattle in my test music file, though I cannot speak for other songs.. Will my continued usage causing it to rattle damage it even more?
I should also mention that the rattling is inaudible with my other speakers on. It does not bother me at all. If continuing to use it will not cause it to get damaged even more, I will have absolutely no issues in doing so. I actually really hope that is the case.. Would save me a lot of hassle and money
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Below are pictures of my equalizer setting for the rattling sub: the first picture is its normal (before adjustment) setting and the second is the new (after adjustment) setting. (If I don't use this equalizer, I'll have to turn the gain up on the subwoofer amp which does NOT have a subsonic filter, making my subs over-exert at the volumes I listen to, so instead of getting a lowpass filter I just turn down the overall gain and boost the higher frequencies.)
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
If I don't use this equalizer, I'll have to turn the gain up on the subwoofer amp which does NOT have a subsonic filter, making my subs over-exert at the volumes I listen to, so instead of getting a lowpass filter I just turn down the overall gain and boost the higher frequencies.
I would assume that you have broken your speaker driver by over excursion.
If there is no re cone kit available you probably will need a replacement driver sooner or later.
I assume that by turning up the graphic eqaliser you are trying to make a rudimentary sub-woofer filter. I would think that a proper active filter would perform much better, and help to protect your speakers from more damage.
If there is no re cone kit available you probably will need a replacement driver sooner or later.
I assume that by turning up the graphic eqaliser you are trying to make a rudimentary sub-woofer filter. I would think that a proper active filter would perform much better, and help to protect your speakers from more damage.
Hi bassheadboy,
I'm assuming your are talking about the Creative Sound Solutions SDX12? I would contact them, and see if they can repair the damaged drivers (see Xoc1's post).
Before turning that system back on get yourself a proper high pass filter. Subs should not be driven with high power without a properly designed HP.
Regards,
I'm assuming your are talking about the Creative Sound Solutions SDX12? I would contact them, and see if they can repair the damaged drivers (see Xoc1's post).
Before turning that system back on get yourself a proper high pass filter. Subs should not be driven with high power without a properly designed HP.
Regards,
Re-coning can be quite expensive.
I find it a bit odd the cone was coming right out.
Perhaps the amp has an issue too ?
I find it a bit odd the cone was coming right out.
Perhaps the amp has an issue too ?
I was told that my drivers did not need any highpass filters since they have an xmax of 28mm one way before they soft-bottom. I just had that graphic equalizer laying around so I decided to use it to make absolutely sure that I don't damage my subwoofers, even though they could, apparently, handle subsonic frequencies just fine (my enclosure is tuned to 17Hz as well.)
Is over-excursion really the cause? Because I find it strange that only one of my subwoofers have gotten damaged.
Yes, you are correct, they are by CSS. I have emailed them asking what their warranty is the day before I posted this and, despite saying that they will respond within 48 hours, they have yet to do so..
Can you please link me to an HP you would recommend for me to use?
I don't think I said the cone was coming right out. It's all still intact and looks fine visually. It's just something inside of it that makes rattling noise at high volumes.. And not even low frequencies. Low frequencies sound just fine, actually. It's the higher, 60-80 Hz frequencies that produce this rattling sound.
If you are wondering about the amp due to that popping sound, that was caused from my 5.1 amp, not my subwoofer amp. I have 3 pairs of RCA cables that leave my mixer; two pairs go into two 5.1 amps (which don't have any subs) and the last pair goes to my graphic equalizer > phase3 rca to xlr upsignaling box (rca in, xlr out) > crown XLS2500W amp (xlr in).
Thank you all for your input so far, and if any more info is needed of me, please let me know.
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BassHead,
Good that you have two woofers and boxes, pull the woofers out and swap them.
While they are out though, put the noisy woofer on a table and give it another look.
Hook it up to signal generator and run test tones etc: Online Tone Generator - Generate free low frequency tones to test your subwoofer.
Check the small lead wires, make sure they are not lose and hitting the cone.
Check the magnet and frame
Check the box for lose parts, is there a pic?
Remove the eq. from system -- in short, trouble shoot and check everything!!
Good that you have two woofers and boxes, pull the woofers out and swap them.
While they are out though, put the noisy woofer on a table and give it another look.
Hook it up to signal generator and run test tones etc: Online Tone Generator - Generate free low frequency tones to test your subwoofer.
Check the small lead wires, make sure they are not lose and hitting the cone.
Check the magnet and frame
Check the box for lose parts, is there a pic?
Remove the eq. from system -- in short, trouble shoot and check everything!!
Before I do any of that, is it necessary after knowing that I have taken the driver out of the box and manually pushed the cone in, being able to reproduce that rattling sound? It happens most easily when pushing the bottom left corner relative to my enclosure.
Given that I'm able to reproduce the rattling outside the enclosure without even using a test tone, should I still do the steps you mentioned?
Also, given that the rattling sound is only audible when I turn off all my speakers and my right subwoofer (the left one rattles), can I just continue using it as I normally would? What I'm asking is will it get even more damaged the more I use it if I cause it to rattle? The noise does not bother me so if it will not get any more damaged, I will not have an issue using it at the same levels I always have.
Oh that's not good, the voice coil is damaged -- it came apart or back of coil is bent/smashed.
Re-cone or replace it with identical driver.
Do check everything thoroughly though. You didn't get any metal shaving near it did you, like drilling the speaker frame or something?
Re-cone or replace it with identical driver.
Do check everything thoroughly though. You didn't get any metal shaving near it did you, like drilling the speaker frame or something?
Facts as I can make out.
Speaker drivers 4 ohm 28mm X-max
Amp Power 775W @ 4 ohm
Enclosure tuned to 17hz
Running a quick sim in hornresp x- max is not exceeded at 24hz but is below 14Hz
At 10Hz displacement is a theoretical 60mm.
Still think you don't need a hi-pass filter?🙂
Speaker drivers 4 ohm 28mm X-max
Amp Power 775W @ 4 ohm
Enclosure tuned to 17hz
Running a quick sim in hornresp x- max is not exceeded at 24hz but is below 14Hz
At 10Hz displacement is a theoretical 60mm.
Still think you don't need a hi-pass filter?🙂
Attachments
Hi bassheadboy,
Post #7: "Can you please link me to an HP you would recommend for me to use?"
Here is a diy solution from Elliott Sound Products, their Project 99:
Project 99 - Subsonic Filter
You may also want to search for parametric equalizers, crossovers, compressors and limiters most will have some kind of low cut filet (high pass) build in, and provide additional functionality for shaping the response of your subwoofer system. It's a research project.
There also is the whole digital world of audio DSP products, e.g.: https://www.minidsp.com/.
Regards,
Post #7: "Can you please link me to an HP you would recommend for me to use?"
Here is a diy solution from Elliott Sound Products, their Project 99:
Project 99 - Subsonic Filter
You may also want to search for parametric equalizers, crossovers, compressors and limiters most will have some kind of low cut filet (high pass) build in, and provide additional functionality for shaping the response of your subwoofer system. It's a research project.
There also is the whole digital world of audio DSP products, e.g.: https://www.minidsp.com/.
Regards,
I haven't gotten any metal shavings near it, didn't need to work with metal when building the enclosure anyway. What would happen if I continue using it without re-coning? Will it get more damaged?
I was told that I didn't by pretty much everyone I had asked until now, thank you for running that test and letting me know that I indeed do need one. No, was your finding of 60mm one way, or two-way? The subs have 28mm X-max one way before soft-bottoming: I was told that means that they have even more X-max before hard-bottoming, which is when it actually starts to take damage.
Do you have any recommendations of 12" subwoofer that I can put in my enclosures, replacing my SDX12's, that will give me more X-max? I really like deep bass and, if possible, would prefer getting subs that can handle it as opposed to a subsonic filter.
Do you need the dimensions of my enclosure to figure out, or will simply knowing the tuning and my current drivers be enough info?
Thank you for showing this to me. This seems rather complicated for a beginner like myself. Do simple products exist? I think I've seen subsonic filters that were meant to bridge an RCA cable to the source. Will those not cut it?
Sorry for the double post, couldn't find a way to edit my previous post. Would these RCA 20Hz Highpass filters work? https://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Lab...id=1479183193&sr=8-1&keywords=subsonic+filter Couldn't find them on the Canadian amazon so hopefully shipping won't be too much if I decide to get them. However I'll need replacement subs/a replacement sub first..
Hornresp calculates the theoretical one-way maximum displacement of the driver diaphragm from its mean position, assuming linear operation.
Two-way (peak to peak) would be 120 mm.
Ouch.. So mine may have displaced over 2x as far, it seems. I guess I'm just lucky that only one of them got damaged? Would continued use increase the damage, assuming I don't watch movies with super deep bass?
Also, will the High Pass Filter I linked in my previous post protect these drivers if I were to get a new pair?
Hornresp is showing that a 4th order filter at about 14-15 Hz is a reasonable fit. All depends on if your 17 Hz cabinets are tuned to that frequency or not!
The passive filters you put a link to in your post might work but don't offer you any adjustment, and will vary in performance depending on what they are plugged into. They also waste some of the performance of your speakers.
The passive filters you put a link to in your post might work but don't offer you any adjustment, and will vary in performance depending on what they are plugged into. They also waste some of the performance of your speakers.
Attachments
Thank you for this info. It looks like it would be best for me to make my own high pass filter after all. Based on this guide, would I need 4 180nF capacitors? Project 99 - Subsonic Filter
I would encourage you to sim your sub speaker in Hornresp.
You could also run a check on the tuning frequency of your cabinet using a frequency generator and a DVM to find the real impedance minimum.
If the tuning is different to what you expected you could adjust the sim to suit, and make sure that the filter is optimal. You could also use the sim to optimise the filter frequncy for the 6th order filter rather than the 4th order I used.
You could also run a check on the tuning frequency of your cabinet using a frequency generator and a DVM to find the real impedance minimum.
If the tuning is different to what you expected you could adjust the sim to suit, and make sure that the filter is optimal. You could also use the sim to optimise the filter frequncy for the 6th order filter rather than the 4th order I used.
Sounds like a plan. I'll do that at my earliest convenience. I was just hoping to see if my dad can help me out with making the subsonic filter, but the site is down. Can you find another site that details how to make the subsonic filter that I would need? Thanks in advance.
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