I have been considering this driver for a small (6 liter ?) sealed mini monitor for a while. Looks like it would lend itself very well for an acoustic suspension design down to about 65Hz but I have found very little on line in the way of projects for this particular driver. Anyone have any experience with it?
Thanks
Matthew
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/scanspeak-15w/8530k-01-5-revelator-woofer/
Possible tweeter suggestion
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-soft-dome-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-d3004/6020-10-1-tweeter-deep-chamber/
Thanks
Matthew
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/scanspeak-15w/8530k-01-5-revelator-woofer/
Possible tweeter suggestion
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-soft-dome-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-d3004/6020-10-1-tweeter-deep-chamber/
Attachments
Not the K 01 but the k 00:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/EllamXT.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellam-FLEX.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellam-dappo.htm
I don't have experience to built with it but i've heard some speakers with this woofer and have been pretty impressed with the low end and mid. Just don't expect them to sound like a 15".
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/EllamXT.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellam-FLEX.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellam-dappo.htm
I don't have experience to built with it but i've heard some speakers with this woofer and have been pretty impressed with the low end and mid. Just don't expect them to sound like a 15".
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Why force it low and muddle up all that wonderful midrange with near excursion limits to 65Hz.......go subwoofer with a SEAS LROY!
Not forcing the issue. I posted the excursion graph to show max power handing as modeled. Actually I do plan on utilizing these satellites with a sub crossed around 50-80Hz with a Mini DSP HD and another amp channel. The model for that is shown below and looks really good. At the same power level the Scan is still under the linear excursion rating and nowhere near the limit.
Also, I like the small form factor of the Scan 6020 but I am also considering these 2 tweeters, although the 6600 is at the upper limit of my budget.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-soft-dome-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-d3004/6600-aircirc-tweeter-textile-dome/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/seas-prestige-27tbcd/gb-dxt-h1499-tweeter/
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I know the uncoated version of these drivers from my incarnation of the AOS Studio 24 and the PrunuScan. They are very good in the midrange, and are super easy when it comes to filter design (can do a first order filter easily). Deep and strong bass is not their strength, and I found they sound better with a high pass filter to remove the deep bass, and add a dedicated subwoofer.
If you're going with a first order filter (which I recommend!), doing the same for the tweeter would be a natural choice. So you'd need a tweeter with a lowish resonance frequency, and a sufficiently flat roll off at (and below) the x-over frequency. I really like the ScanSpeak tweeters...
I used those same woofers in my Intimates 2-way design. My recollection was that woofer could get to 65 hz in a sealed 15 liter box. I'd be VERY surprised if you could get that low with 6 liters. The intimates was a ported design and Fb was 40 hz. F3 about 48 hz. If you want any more technical info (T/S parameter I measured) and FR's, PM me.
The tweeter you selected above does look interesting. One of my incarnations of the Intimates had Vifa XT25TG30-04 Ring Radiator. HF extension was much better than the Scan you are looking at. Polars were also quite impressive with little roll off at 30 deg. off axis. A nice value.
I crossed the Vifa with a 3rd order design around 2 kHz. I have a schematic of the 15W and Vifa design if you are interested.
Just out of curiosity, why did you choose to port this speaker when the sealed model looks so good? The WinISD predicts around 12 liters sealed @.707 with an f3 of 59Hz but it wont take any power. If i cut that in half (roughly), the response still looks really nice with only a 1db bump and a Qtc around .9. The f3 is about 65Hz and the power handling is decent (about 50 watts). Unless I am missing something?
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I choose ported because I wanted the lowest bass extension I could get with the 15W.
Try the T/S paramaters listed below with your sim software. They are from a test I did on my 15W's with a calibrated woofer tester II.
Fs = 42 hz
Re = 5.7 ohms
Qes = .705
Qms = 4.41
Qts = .608
Le = .247 mH
Vas = 17 L
Mms = 12.7 g
Sens. = 84.2 dB 1W/1M
Bl = 5.2
Cms = 1131 um/N
Kms = 883 N/m
Give the Vifa XT25T RR tweeter a look
Here's 3 polar tests I ran on my Intimates with the Viva RR tweeter and 15W.
Just look at the HF extension on axis and how little it falls off 30 deg off axis.
Tests ran @ 1M from speaker and recorded with Holm Impulse.
Also note the distortion plots at the bottom. 3rd HD about 50 dB down from the fundamental, which equates to <1/2 % distortion.
Here's 3 polar tests I ran on my Intimates with the Viva RR tweeter and 15W.
Just look at the HF extension on axis and how little it falls off 30 deg off axis.
Tests ran @ 1M from speaker and recorded with Holm Impulse.
Also note the distortion plots at the bottom. 3rd HD about 50 dB down from the fundamental, which equates to <1/2 % distortion.
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Your measurements do indeed paint a different picture. See images. The f3 changes a bit but the real issue is the change in the db bump. The bump is now large enough to be worrisome IMO. If I change the internal volume to 8 liters the model looks much better. Evan better than the published driver specs. Unfortunately, the 8 liters is outside the size constraint I set for the satellite size. I set the size limit @ 6 liters internal (remember when calculating net for 6 liters you really only have about 5) because I want to be able to use the speaker on my desktop as well as other places. I realistically don't see a desktop speaker being any larger than 6 liters. Evan @ 6 liters that is rather large for a desktop application.
So my quest continues. I really want to use a Scan-Speak driver for this project because I have never used a Scan before. I have other options but my search continues. I will keep you posted as I make progress.
Can an acoustic suspension speaker be designed that will reach down to 65Hz accurately (without DSP) in a 6 liter internal volume box and still be high fidelity? I will be sure to find out.
Thank you for your input SD. And your Intimates are a very nice looking speaker.
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Your hump may not necessarily be a bad thing for your desktop application. It means you have a high Q speaker, it simply means you have a little bass 'boost' from the hump. The classic Acoustic Research AR4x sealed speaker design took advantage of a very similar hump to help emphasize bass and sell hundreds of thousands of them back in the day. IIRC box Q was around 1.2. What does your software say the Q is for your 6 L box and my T/S parameters?
Oops! I took a close look at your 6L model with the bass hump and saw in the fine print the Qtc was 1.19!
Pretty darn close to the AR4x.
No problem with your box size constraints.
Oops! I took a close look at your 6L model with the bass hump and saw in the fine print the Qtc was 1.19!
Pretty darn close to the AR4x.No problem with your box size constraints.
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Here is another driver I have been considering for the same project.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/seas-prestige-l16rn-sl-h1480-5-aluminum-cone-woofer/
The driver is competently different from the Scan. The bottom models very closely to the Scan's published specs in a 6 liter sealed box although the 12mm travel says it will handle twice the power.
My concerns are one, the metal cone (I'm a big paper cone fan) and two, the response curve is pretty intimidating to me as far as crossover design.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/seas-prestige-l16rn-sl-h1480-5-aluminum-cone-woofer/
The driver is competently different from the Scan. The bottom models very closely to the Scan's published specs in a 6 liter sealed box although the 12mm travel says it will handle twice the power.
My concerns are one, the metal cone (I'm a big paper cone fan) and two, the response curve is pretty intimidating to me as far as crossover design.
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Yeah, you've got some serious cone edge breakup modes there. You also have a significant bump up in response at 600 hz to deal with. Good luck with that one. That Seas woofers looks like a good candidate for a 3 way where a 2nd or 3rd order LP filter is used to start rolling off around 500 hz.
I think for nearfield listening (i.e. desktop) a paper cone would be more desirable from the standpoint of lifelike vocals.
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