CD players are more stable than you might suspect. I present some evidence.
Expedition 6 Video Index
Expedition 6 Video Index
Too bad that the OP listed this thread in The Lounge, home of the nonsense thread and postings, rather than Digital Source Forum.
It's a valid question to ask why cd transports can sound different. The OP seems to have observed this and wonders why.
I too have observed this over 20 years ago when I was using a Sony cd player as a transport into a standalone dac and then I replaced the Sony with a Theta Digital transport. This remains to this day as the single most "Wow" moment is differences in changing single audio units.
The days of two piece cd play are long gone now and nobody has made a dedicated transport since the 90's, but all players do have at least an SPDIF out, so can be used as a transport if desired.
I found the thread below to be illuminating into how a cd laser reads the disc. Though long, at 629 pages, there is lots of good information included that is relevant to this thread.
I think it would be good if Chris, aka Anatech, could post something in the current thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...sms-long-gone-let-us-build-one-ourselves.html
It will be interesting to read the follow up after SY's trip to Iowa.
It's a valid question to ask why cd transports can sound different. The OP seems to have observed this and wonders why.
I too have observed this over 20 years ago when I was using a Sony cd player as a transport into a standalone dac and then I replaced the Sony with a Theta Digital transport. This remains to this day as the single most "Wow" moment is differences in changing single audio units.
The days of two piece cd play are long gone now and nobody has made a dedicated transport since the 90's, but all players do have at least an SPDIF out, so can be used as a transport if desired.
I found the thread below to be illuminating into how a cd laser reads the disc. Though long, at 629 pages, there is lots of good information included that is relevant to this thread.
I think it would be good if Chris, aka Anatech, could post something in the current thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...sms-long-gone-let-us-build-one-ourselves.html
It will be interesting to read the follow up after SY's trip to Iowa.
My handle here at syclotron dot com.
Sorry to be elliptical, I don't want my email harvested by bots.
Sorry to be elliptical, I don't want my email harvested by bots.
You're really blowing smoke now. CD's don't drag and drop copy because of the music industry, mainly SONY. The CD format is packed with CRC error correction and other information the format info is all public domain, jeez this stuff has been posted for years read up. If you would read what I posted there was no disrespect but the reality is what it is do your own comparison I did Pano I assume did too. CD rippers that don't conform religiously to format standards for zero padding and other details are caught but I am only interested in the actual music data. Trust my word how silly, try it yourself. The claim that somehow the CD rip from foobar or whatever somehow has 100's or 1000's of interpolated samples (i.e. a "sound") is just nonsense.
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That's just plain wrong, I have the service manual from the first portable CD player ever SONY D5, ancient history, it had a buffer.
You got it!
The dishonest argument is conflating error correction (bit perfect) with error concealment (interpolation). The latter, I found maybe one or two instances in several hundred CDs played. That's 1/44100 of a second in hundreds of hours. I can live with that.
Never said that or alluded to it (no one has in this topic). We're talking about transports playing music, that use interpolation. You're now grouping data reading with streaming, which simply act differently. It's also the difference between a computer disc drive and a CD player drive acting as transport as well.
OK so what are we talking about? Please present some data on use of interpolated samples in any streaming or CD application. In my and most folks experience it is very rare, period, except in pathological cases. I have actually played with the old Phillips chip set that flagged hard errors that were interpolated it almost never lit up ever, unless maybe I put my finger on the CD to slow it down and see if it did anything.
And to be clear I am using the term "a sound" in my own way to differentiate it from one or two missing samples on a track. IMO a sound would require some regular density of a continuous stream of missing samples that were interpolated. Let me be clear if one was to, say throw away .1% of all the samples on a CD at random and replace them with interpolated samples, I doubt anyone could hear any effect.
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Of course if anyone wants to take that challenge, it must be DBT no peeking, sorry there is no other possibility.
I agree, I have no expectations for anyone to hear the difference. My only point is I don't expect, nor believe, or have representation that CD's streaming are bit perfect. My only reasoning for a difference in sound from transports is related to noise and improper design.
Now, how much does noise matter? That could be a potentially significant difference.
Now, how much does noise matter? That could be a potentially significant difference.
I posted this 2 days and over 70 posts ago. Not one peep from anyone. Should I conclude that no one is really interested in finding out for themselves?
OK, by me - it's a lot less work. 😀
OK, by me - it's a lot less work. 😀
Par for the course. Talk is cheap, doing your own legwork apparently is a bridge no one wants to cross.
Usually it takes a few days for your offer to recede in the background. They will then be back, those with the unfounded wrong 'opinions' and nonsense views that could have been cleared up with 10 minutes of study.
And so it goes.
Jan
Have you ever done this sort of controlled listening test (including "blinding" conditions ) done before?
He can afford it, he doesn't have to live off not knowing.😉
And he has the balls, clearly.
And he may be proven right, who knows!
Jan
And he has the balls, clearly.
And he may be proven right, who knows!
Jan
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At least the latter statement is extremely cowardly (I don't care how respected you are or aren't) and anti-curious.
Yes, let's hope that James is cognizant of the protocol at hand, but wow, do you guys run from actual tests like the plague.
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