How many double negatives? "ain't no".
Does than mean it is?
85kG, that is practically 1 1/2 CWT! 112kG boxed! You will get a bad back! Can't beat the new generation of Crown amplifiers. 6kW and only 12kG.
Does than mean it is?
85kG, that is practically 1 1/2 CWT! 112kG boxed! You will get a bad back! Can't beat the new generation of Crown amplifiers. 6kW and only 12kG.
No doubt it is a prodigiously powerful amplifier, and built like the proverbial brick shithouse to coin an aussie term.
Nevertheless I sense some specmanship in there.
And I suspect an awesome price tag to boot.
Nevertheless I sense some specmanship in there.
And I suspect an awesome price tag to boot.
Analog Domain Apollo = ONLY $184,000 EACH 😀 I'll take three ... 4000W Peak into 8Ohms & 8000W Peak into 4Ohms. Still, a Lot of power.
Of course it doesn't mean they don't sound good etc, but i'm Sure we have Lots of designs on here that could match/beat it/them for sound quality. And at a Fraction of the price. 😉 Case design etc is another matter though !
Unfortunate name for one of their amps ! The "Isis" 😱 https://www.analogdomain.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=30
Interview with the owner - Mono and Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Exclusive interview with Analog Domain - Angel Despotov - Can't say i learnt much from it !
Of course it doesn't mean they don't sound good etc, but i'm Sure we have Lots of designs on here that could match/beat it/them for sound quality. And at a Fraction of the price. 😉 Case design etc is another matter though !
Unfortunate name for one of their amps ! The "Isis" 😱 https://www.analogdomain.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=30
Interview with the owner - Mono and Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Exclusive interview with Analog Domain - Angel Despotov - Can't say i learnt much from it !
I think you gotta do your research more carefully. 4000W continuous, not peak. $180,000 per pair.
YOU should instead, the original page linked by yourself quotes=
just sayin´ 😛
And who uses peak to peak voltge to specify Audio power output?
RMS is widely accepted, Peak is already frowned upon as gimmicky, peak to peak stinks of despised PMPO.
JMF, thanlks for posting the numbers.
starting with the bottom line.
Peak output voltage: 179Vac ???
Peak should be in Vpk units, not Vac units.
If we accept the actual output as 179Vac, then that does give 4005W into 8ohms.
This would also confirm the second figure since 179*sqrt(2) = 253, i.e. peak output voltage is 253Vpk and the peak to peak voltage is 506Vpp (not ±253Vpp).
The first line states peak power output is 4kW/8ohm.
That would indicate that the 179V is probably 179Vpk
179Vac = 253Vpk = 506Vpp gives an instantaneous peak power of 8010W at the peak of the sinewave.
Seems like the writer of the specification sheet did not understand what he was writing !
starting with the bottom line.
Peak output voltage: 179Vac ???
Peak should be in Vpk units, not Vac units.
If we accept the actual output as 179Vac, then that does give 4005W into 8ohms.
This would also confirm the second figure since 179*sqrt(2) = 253, i.e. peak output voltage is 253Vpk and the peak to peak voltage is 506Vpp (not ±253Vpp).
The first line states peak power output is 4kW/8ohm.
That would indicate that the 179V is probably 179Vpk
179Vac = 253Vpk = 506Vpp gives an instantaneous peak power of 8010W at the peak of the sinewave.
Seems like the writer of the specification sheet did not understand what he was writing !
179Vac (RMS) and 253Vpk values mean basically the same voltage swing, presented in different units.
So, the units for 253 in the spec sheet must be pk, not pp. Well, not a big issue.
In terms the terminology - what the manufacturer normally means by the term "peak" (power, voltage) is actually the output, that can be handled by the amp (without significant distortion increase) during the short period of time. Example - a snare hit.
In the build of this size, it is impossible to dissipate enough heat for driving 4KW continuously.
The first limiting factor is the heatsink, the second is PSU.
So, the spec is ok, except the minor issue with pk/pp.
So, the units for 253 in the spec sheet must be pk, not pp. Well, not a big issue.
In terms the terminology - what the manufacturer normally means by the term "peak" (power, voltage) is actually the output, that can be handled by the amp (without significant distortion increase) during the short period of time. Example - a snare hit.
In the build of this size, it is impossible to dissipate enough heat for driving 4KW continuously.
The first limiting factor is the heatsink, the second is PSU.
So, the spec is ok, except the minor issue with pk/pp.
Can anyone offer a Hi-Fi justification for such power?
Or is it just a PA amp?
Or is it just "mines bigger than yours!"
Or is it just a PA amp?
Or is it just "mines bigger than yours!"
Well, I guess if you want the ultimate in transient response and dynamics, especially into difficult loads, then you could possibly justify it.
As the max current draw is specified as <16A/230V, it's rating of 4000W/8000W cannot be continous power....
Considering the passive heat sinks I would never expect something close to 4kW continuous power. 😡
So are you suggesting that it will sound better because of the size / power?
Irrespective of design, construction and components?
Its basically a dick size contest, no way is anyone in the PA game going to use this thing, when we can have a Crown/Lab Gruppen/Camco that will make more power in a 2U box that weighs in at less then 15kg and costs a couple of thousand even at list.
Hell the old Crown Macrotecs which used to be a staple of the touring scene got dropped like hot rocks as soon as class D and its derivatives became reliable and we are well past the point where there was a serious compromise on quality, the big win was the huge weight saving.
I would note that NOBODY needs a continuous rating in audio (Maybe for running shaker tables or something) equal to the peak power available, I would MUCH rather have an amp rated continuously for say 500W, but with voltage headroom to allow it to do 4kW for a hundred ms at say a few percent duty cycle then an amp rated for 1kW CW which clipped at that point (Class G/H being the obvious approach if you do not want to do class D, or even combine them, a class D amp with an envelope tracking power supply...).
IMHO, audiophile dick size war.
Regards, Dan.
Hell the old Crown Macrotecs which used to be a staple of the touring scene got dropped like hot rocks as soon as class D and its derivatives became reliable and we are well past the point where there was a serious compromise on quality, the big win was the huge weight saving.
I would note that NOBODY needs a continuous rating in audio (Maybe for running shaker tables or something) equal to the peak power available, I would MUCH rather have an amp rated continuously for say 500W, but with voltage headroom to allow it to do 4kW for a hundred ms at say a few percent duty cycle then an amp rated for 1kW CW which clipped at that point (Class G/H being the obvious approach if you do not want to do class D, or even combine them, a class D amp with an envelope tracking power supply...).
IMHO, audiophile dick size war.
Regards, Dan.
I would put it the other way.
Assuming the design, construction and components are good, such characteristics as "120A peak current" and "4 KW peak power" ensure the fast transients and dynamic details will be handled the best possible way even at "difficult" loads.
100 output transistors mean 25 pairs per shoulder (the amp is balanced), although from practical considerations I would stop at 10 pairs per shoulder.
But if somebody is ready to pay the price - why not?
"Mine is bigger" is also a good reason for certain overkill 😉
Hi Guys
If peak output power is 4kW, then peak voltage across 8R is 179V. This is possible to achieve in a bridged amp with +/-100V rails using 230V devices. Peak current is 22.375A which doubles to 44.75A at 4R and then to almost 90A at 2R.
Super amps are nearly universally bridged designs simply so modern high-voltage output BJTs do not have to be cascoded - the cascodong is inherent in the bridge operation. Wat you do find in such amps are LOTS of parallel output devices. For example, Bryston's 28B is rated at 1kWrms-8R and clips at 1300Wrms and has 16pairs of BJTs per side, 32pairs total, or 64 devices overall.. The 2600Wpk corresponds to 144Vpk at 18Apk. The current per output device is 1,23mApk each. The output devices idle at about 70mA or so, and overall are used extremely conservatively. Given the 64 output BJTs above, it does not seem unjustified to go to an even 100 for higher output.
The limiting factor is the mains power. Most circuits are limited to 120V-15A, 1800W, or various current limits at 240V depending on breaker ratings. I believe a standard Euro branch is 10A, which means 2400W. Obviously a special outlet would be required to power the 4kW amp. This applies to all those crazy power ratings on the PA amps around - without a special power feed they cannot meet their maximum output.
25ppm THD seems a bit high.
Have fun
If peak output power is 4kW, then peak voltage across 8R is 179V. This is possible to achieve in a bridged amp with +/-100V rails using 230V devices. Peak current is 22.375A which doubles to 44.75A at 4R and then to almost 90A at 2R.
Super amps are nearly universally bridged designs simply so modern high-voltage output BJTs do not have to be cascoded - the cascodong is inherent in the bridge operation. Wat you do find in such amps are LOTS of parallel output devices. For example, Bryston's 28B is rated at 1kWrms-8R and clips at 1300Wrms and has 16pairs of BJTs per side, 32pairs total, or 64 devices overall.. The 2600Wpk corresponds to 144Vpk at 18Apk. The current per output device is 1,23mApk each. The output devices idle at about 70mA or so, and overall are used extremely conservatively. Given the 64 output BJTs above, it does not seem unjustified to go to an even 100 for higher output.
The limiting factor is the mains power. Most circuits are limited to 120V-15A, 1800W, or various current limits at 240V depending on breaker ratings. I believe a standard Euro branch is 10A, which means 2400W. Obviously a special outlet would be required to power the 4kW amp. This applies to all those crazy power ratings on the PA amps around - without a special power feed they cannot meet their maximum output.
25ppm THD seems a bit high.
Have fun
Normal Euro fuses for standard wall outlets are 10A and 15/16A. (Auto fuses are 10A, 15A or 16A, while the old porcelain stuff is 10 or 16A.)
If you want need more current, you cannot use a Schuko, but you need to go to either a "cooker" outlet (25A) or industrial plugs (single or three-phase, up to 32A).
Johan-Kr
If you want need more current, you cannot use a Schuko, but you need to go to either a "cooker" outlet (25A) or industrial plugs (single or three-phase, up to 32A).
Johan-Kr
I think the most interesting feature of this power amplifier line is the bias circuit arrangement. They say to not use the conventional Vbe multiplier in this circuit, but monitor the bias current through a special (of course top secret) circuit called DX901.
It really called my attention🙄
What do you thing about this?
Regards
Ronaldo
It really called my attention🙄
What do you thing about this?
Regards
Ronaldo
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