That would be a matter of opinion which I would not share.
What transistors have is more inherent flaws than valves, but enough gain to correct those flaws. There is always a price to pay in such an arrangement, a price which some deny even exists.
This situation has gotten considerably worse since the long ago days when manufacturers actually produced silicon specifically for audio applications. Now its a case of pressing subpar general components into audio service and applying even more feedback to straighten them out. Far from ideal, unless you buy into the fiction that feedback has no adverse effects and so more is always better. If you take that philosophical stance then its end of discussion as far as I am concerned.
Shoog
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Thanks for the info and answering my questions. my cheap hybrid tube amp has some tubes effect connected to 4 mosfets. For complete tube amp design, it is having some tubes effect connected to another tubes for amplifying the sound? And is that sound quality alot different for a complete tube amp setup?
Shoog, you are showing admirable restraint. I thought it was common knowledge among those educated in the audio art that boosting global feedback has the effect of reducing the lower order harmonics while simultaneously increasing the level of higher order harmonics, especially the odd ones. Once again the persistent problem of individuals not being able to identify what they DONT know. All this while simultaneously having the overconfidence to simultaneously broadcast the myth as being the gospel from on high. How embarrassing for us as a species.
You don't have to believe me. Just look at the measurements of tube amp vs SS amp per price point. You will see what I mean by inferior technology when it comes to hi-fi sound replay equipment. That is unless you have a different definition of what hi-fi is when it comes to sound replaying equipment.
Since what you personally experience with audio electronics is your personal anecdotes, I won't ask you to share it but how about something that can be shared on internet forums that supports your claims, such as measurements and or DBT results?
People like you and those who act similarly to you. Do you actually read what you write? Or is it just a case of being too embarrassed to backtrack. Get used to it. We all do it. It's the ones who can't allow themselves to do that who end up just looking like an ***.
Please quote my post that falls into "not being able to identify what they DONT know".
Well, I'm afraid that the farther you dig yourself in here the harder it is going to be for you to admit you are wrong. So I'm letting you know this in the hope that you will actually be able to do that, while simultaneously worrying that it won't help at all and will only make you dig in more.
Vacuum tubes statistically generate lower levels of distortion and operate more linearly than semiconductors while operating within their normal operating parameters. This means in general they require lower levels of feedback to operate them usefully. You can get very good sound out of tubes without very much feedback. 6db of feedback is a very reasonable level and a very general tube design that is all competent shouldn't require more than that.
Semiconductor audio circuits generally require much more feedback than that. It is just a fact that higher levels of global feedback can lower 2nd and 3rd harmonics while simultaneously significantly boosting higher order odd harmonics. Just simulate it in LTspice if you don't believe me.
I'm sensing this discussion could veer into rules breaking territory pretty soon, please keep it civil as it so far appears to be.
So you've had it apart then? There seems to be an older version (without bluetooth), that has a discrete 4 transistor output. Then there is a version using LM1875's for the output.
There are no "effects" with a properly designed all tube amp.
jeff
This is absurd: older != inferior. The technologies are different, and the one does certain things better than the other. By the same "logic": MOSFETs are newer than BJTs, and IGBTs are newer than MOSFETs, therefore IGBTs are the ultimate for audio? This is utter nonsense. IGBTs have beeen tried for audio, and proved to be hideous When it comes to solid state amplification, the "older" and therefore "inferior" BJT is quite simply better.
I have my disagreements with him, but not on this. Solid state doesn't have to sound as horrible as it does. EE school doesn't cover audio at much more than a very rudimentary level, only covers the very basic principles, and includes nothing about what makes for excellent sonic performance, a topic which is never mentioned in the first place. They don't even cover how to build a SS amp that won't blow up the first time you power up.
And it gets even worse. With the FedGov's pushing all this glo-bull warming... err... climate change, greenie BS, and demanding these "green" electrical glorified golf carts, or forcing us to use these CFLs -- and what's so "green" about these things that're full f mercury -- that are unreliable, have been known to go up in flames, and make all kinds of horrible RF interference that ruin reception all the way up to the 160M band, the SS industry has pretty much given up on SS devices that work well as audio devices. IGBTs and HEXFETs are switches, not amplifiers. You want to talk about pressing a decidedly inferior technology into a use for which it was never designed, well, there you go. The major manufacturers aren't making good audio PA transistors any more, and the ones that still persist only do so because the R&D has already been done, and they are cheap to make. Forch, there are enough major players still in business who haven't fallen for the MOSFET fad.
Some great audio devices have been lost forever: try to find VFETs -- they're rarer than NOS Western Electric 300Bs, and about as expensive, on the rare occasions you actually find some. The lateral MOSFET is produced by only a few, small, "boutique" manufacturers. This is another device that's better for audio than what's available from the major players.
Anything new that works well for audio,like these SiC JFETs (still waiting for these) is simply a coincidence. The current "state of the art" is so screwed up that VTs will be with us for a good long while.
References?
I noticed that essentially same information has been included in the Tube sound article on Wikipedia – without references, however. Would you provide some?
I noticed that essentially same information has been included in the Tube sound article on Wikipedia – without references, however. Would you provide some?
I've got one of those. Really must get it working again as it will be 50 years old in a few months time
If there are no references for this information then I think you should remove it from the Wikipedia article immediately. What are we coming to. People that have worked for years on these things should never be taken on their word. I think under all circumstances that a citation from some general interest link from the internet should take preference over experience. It's just not kosher or legitimate to do otherwise.
I was only talking about tube vs transistor in the context of hi-fi sound replay equipment.
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