Well generally we use metals in cables (although some have used carbon) so its a different model than considering shells. You have a sea of electrons jostling about carrying signals in a nano mexican wave.
To consider
L, R, C. Screening, send and return balance.
Not to consider
Flooby, crystals, wife in kitchen.
Wife on Sofa doesn't care along as you dont keep stopping the music to change something!
Same here, it is an on-going domestic problem.... In a fit recently I did unplug everything and removed the cables.... The wife in the kitchen, a soap opera addict was not amused, but she did say that the system noise was the lowest she'd ever heard🙂
When I say I removed, I have a redundant 16 year old son at home, that with enough coercion does all my dirty work for me🙂
Because electrons are not that critical, they only jiggle a few microns...
Look at how the EM wave propagates, start with Oliver Heaviside's stuff....
Standard cable theory and parameters are all you need...
looking forward to the dissipation on different solders I cant wait for that one.... shall we discuss intermetallic's that are formed as well... somewhere got some interesting white papers on solder joints, one of the MOST studied thing in electronics over the years due too how critical they are to the operation of an assembly, shocked to find that they cause differences in audio, as well as thin plastic around the wire, next we'll be discussing how solder resist colour can change the sound😕🙄
Two words: sighted evaluations.
Because the various electron shell arrangements do not significantly affect the ability to pass audio signals, given that the cables are engineered properly.
For example electrical wiring in and around your house can easily be copper, aluminum, or a (pretty likely these days) a combination of the two. If properly engineered do these wires based on different elements with different electron shell (and different nuclei) change the frequency, the purity, or the voltage of your AC current? No!
Actually, the difference in conductivity between copper and aluminum is pretty large. It takes a wire with more than 50% larger cross section area made of aluminum to duplicate the conductivity of copper. But, that difference compensated for, they can work the same for power, audio, and RF.
\
It's all about the engineering. The relevant technical properties of the different materials are well known and established guidelines and industry practices are used to meet the respective technical requirements. Any possible differences are managed out of significance.
Audiophile myths are actually forms of institutionalized disrespect for how well the various potential difficulties inherent in audio are understood and managed. They pretend to offer something better at a high price, but for a far more reasonable price it is possible to have a properly engineered solution that performs at least as well, if not better.
...have nothing to do with metals. If I could burn every comic book used in schools that have those stupid "shells" in them, I would.
And note: my 16-year old daughter, who has no interest in hifi knows that metals don't have shells!
Bought and sold....Thats me!
arnyik....Come on no need to try to impress with speed reading, you know you have to take things easy nowadays😉
You really have missed the point.
Its not HDMI you should be comparing with....WiSA is a wirless AUDIO transmission system HDMI is used for video....We dont use HDMI for speaker cables do we?!
WiSA only works with audio signals, you still need to run an HDMI cable to your screen / projector from your Blu Ray player.
The NDA's from WiSA are the most detailed I have ever signed so I aint about to pi** off the Summit ( the guys who make the boards) by revealing anything thats not on the website.
But check out the major global players who are signed up.....If you dont believe me I suggest you think about why the big boys are all on board...??
WiSA ran a demo over the 3 days at last years Pro Sound show.....Flawless High Def 24 bit 96KHz transmitted under the nightmare RF / Switch Mode power supply / mobile phone infested hell that is a live sound show....
No-one else even dared to switch on their wireless mics!!
By the way I dont sell cables! I only bundle my silver and teflon cables with my speakers because I know they sound better than any stranded and or copper cables I have used.
If you check any of my posts, I suggest people make up their own DIY cables using 0.6mm solid core silver in non shrunk 4mm Teflon tubing and then twist them together and use crimps not solder and then seal with a bubble of hot melt glue.....Talking of hot melt glue:
Almost forgot...Sy, do please post what hot melt glue is made of, I gather its earth shattering and will disprove all my work and beliefs and show that I have no grasp on any form of scientific discipline.
Mmmmn must dash, matrons due with my injections before I start checking the chemical composition my carpets and wallpaper ...Just in case😀
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
arnyik....Come on no need to try to impress with speed reading, you know you have to take things easy nowadays😉
You really have missed the point.
Its not HDMI you should be comparing with....WiSA is a wirless AUDIO transmission system HDMI is used for video....We dont use HDMI for speaker cables do we?!
WiSA only works with audio signals, you still need to run an HDMI cable to your screen / projector from your Blu Ray player.
The NDA's from WiSA are the most detailed I have ever signed so I aint about to pi** off the Summit ( the guys who make the boards) by revealing anything thats not on the website.
But check out the major global players who are signed up.....If you dont believe me I suggest you think about why the big boys are all on board...??
WiSA ran a demo over the 3 days at last years Pro Sound show.....Flawless High Def 24 bit 96KHz transmitted under the nightmare RF / Switch Mode power supply / mobile phone infested hell that is a live sound show....
No-one else even dared to switch on their wireless mics!!
By the way I dont sell cables! I only bundle my silver and teflon cables with my speakers because I know they sound better than any stranded and or copper cables I have used.
If you check any of my posts, I suggest people make up their own DIY cables using 0.6mm solid core silver in non shrunk 4mm Teflon tubing and then twist them together and use crimps not solder and then seal with a bubble of hot melt glue.....Talking of hot melt glue:
Almost forgot...Sy, do please post what hot melt glue is made of, I gather its earth shattering and will disprove all my work and beliefs and show that I have no grasp on any form of scientific discipline.
Mmmmn must dash, matrons due with my injections before I start checking the chemical composition my carpets and wallpaper ...Just in case😀
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
Maximize unwanted triboelectric effects and cause surface reaction with the silver. Nice.
How can anyone possibly be cynical about the competence of fashion audio "designers"?
Thanks...I'm a fashion designer!
Come on sy, is that all you got...?!
I think I have come out on top with my double referencing of the two white papers a few posts back....Silver in Teflon is a sweet combination...As long as you dont go rubbing it too hard!
How about having a go at WiSA....Come on I like it and recomend it so it must be junk and I'm sure a man of your skills can take it apart and prove its a con....I dare you!
Thanks and all the best
Derek.
Come on sy, is that all you got...?!
I think I have come out on top with my double referencing of the two white papers a few posts back....Silver in Teflon is a sweet combination...As long as you dont go rubbing it too hard!
How about having a go at WiSA....Come on I like it and recomend it so it must be junk and I'm sure a man of your skills can take it apart and prove its a con....I dare you!
Thanks and all the best
Derek.
@Overkill: SY is right, you are not coming across as understanding even the basics. I had assumed you were trying to sell well-engineered products, or at least develop them?
Really?
My points (which you have missed and dismissed) were that HDMI, while a suboptimal means for transmitting audio is still equal or better than WISA specs. HDMI and WISA are suboptimal compared to the best that can be done with commodity cables and other formats.
Yet, we have you on the public record saying:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/286462-silver-wire-7.html#post4626994
"I am delighted to say that no cable sounds better than any cable!"
Here's a news flash - HDMI is a well-known means for transmitting audio.
Too bad.
Interesting question - whether you can sign enough NDA's to overcome all the false claims, glaring technical errors and self-contradictions that you seem to have posted here lately. I hope you can see that I'm not the only one who is noticing.
You can't engineer if you don't understand the basics, what you do understand is wrong, and you have no interest in learning what's right. It's lamentably common in fashion audio, and almost universal in the cable and wire market segment.
Sy is wrong, I am right!
Naa, I think sy is wrong, simple!
This siver cable thread is fun, I love cable threads and always recommend Silver and Teflon DIY cables.
As I dont sell cables I dont have any bias, just use what sounds best....Now if that means you ( oe sy or anyone else) dont think I am coming across as understanding the basics thats just fine by me!
Now you can assume anything you like...Am I bothered?😉
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
Naa, I think sy is wrong, simple!
This siver cable thread is fun, I love cable threads and always recommend Silver and Teflon DIY cables.
As I dont sell cables I dont have any bias, just use what sounds best....Now if that means you ( oe sy or anyone else) dont think I am coming across as understanding the basics thats just fine by me!
Now you can assume anything you like...Am I bothered?😉
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
"Naa, I think sy is wrong, simple! .......... This siver (sic) cable thread is fun, ...."
There is not much point trying to debate with someone who presents as a giggly schoolchild.
Those signature lines get very boring after the second read and waste bandwidth.
Someone else added to the ignore list.
There is not much point trying to debate with someone who presents as a giggly schoolchild.
Those signature lines get very boring after the second read and waste bandwidth.
Someone else added to the ignore list.
I guess that in some people's private little universes, this suffices for a reasoned answer.
So this is more of a habit than anything that represents the hobby of building audio gear?
Does not follow.
I thought that your behavior was based on habit.
So your purpose is to not make any sense?
It seems to me that in accordance with the above, you could google up any non-audio forum and go there and use the same basic MO. Why not give it a try?
The problem … gentlemen is that we're a bunch of goats debating various issues from our own long-held (and thus nearly immutable) positions.
Silver is the best metallic conductor. Therefore (simple thinking): its the best to use.
Teflon is the best insulator. Therefore (simple thinking): its the best to use.
BUT … sayth the Knowledgable … Teflon and silver are significant triboelectric pairs!
So … what to do?
Enter, The Wiresmiths … "do non-obvious things to the cable construction; claim both from physics and 'critical listening' that there are advantages. Repeat often and loudly. People will eventually belief the story."
Overkill Audio (what a delightfully accurate handle!) sez, “use solid silver, its the best. Wrap it in virgin eiderdown, stuffed in extra-large teflon sleeves. Crimp everything to prevent bad-old-solder from introducing something bad into the connections. Squirt hot-glue on all crimps, to hopefully put oxidation and sulfidation on hold. Sit back and enjoy!” (loosely paraphrased, especially re: eiderdown, even tho' in the 'overkill' context, it isn't a bad idea… provided one can figure out how to do it.)
Anyway, I think this jousting is getting a bit old. Because if you are in the camp of “it hardly matters”, THEN the argument also hardly matters. You will not convince ol' Overkill that it hardly matters, nor that his procedural invention of crimping and gluing isn't just almost entirely useless motion. You're not. We're not.
Remember, the arguments of the number of angels that could fit on the head of a pin were enough to cause schisms within the Jesuit Order at one time. Over … nothing … the strongest and strangest tightly-held opinions are formed.
Mightn't this be one of them?
63.0×10⁶ S/m for silver
59.6×10⁶ S/m for copper
41.0×10⁶ S/m for gold
35.0×10⁶ S/m for aluminum
10.0×10⁶ S/m for iron
3.30×10⁶ S/m for solder (but variable by composition)
1.45×10⁶ S/m for stainless steel
One could certainly (and mistakenly) say, “well, solder IS bad! look at it!” … but that ignores the context of its use: in well soldered joints, it is a film ranging from dozens of μm to perhaps a millimeter thick, and usually in 'small blob' form, which is far larger than the conductors being joined. Since resistance also depends on diameter … this pretty much 'unhooks' the lower bulk conductivity from having any impact.
So…
Shall we stop?
GoatGuy
Silver is the best metallic conductor. Therefore (simple thinking): its the best to use.
Teflon is the best insulator. Therefore (simple thinking): its the best to use.
BUT … sayth the Knowledgable … Teflon and silver are significant triboelectric pairs!
So … what to do?
Enter, The Wiresmiths … "do non-obvious things to the cable construction; claim both from physics and 'critical listening' that there are advantages. Repeat often and loudly. People will eventually belief the story."
Overkill Audio (what a delightfully accurate handle!) sez, “use solid silver, its the best. Wrap it in virgin eiderdown, stuffed in extra-large teflon sleeves. Crimp everything to prevent bad-old-solder from introducing something bad into the connections. Squirt hot-glue on all crimps, to hopefully put oxidation and sulfidation on hold. Sit back and enjoy!” (loosely paraphrased, especially re: eiderdown, even tho' in the 'overkill' context, it isn't a bad idea… provided one can figure out how to do it.)
Anyway, I think this jousting is getting a bit old. Because if you are in the camp of “it hardly matters”, THEN the argument also hardly matters. You will not convince ol' Overkill that it hardly matters, nor that his procedural invention of crimping and gluing isn't just almost entirely useless motion. You're not. We're not.
Remember, the arguments of the number of angels that could fit on the head of a pin were enough to cause schisms within the Jesuit Order at one time. Over … nothing … the strongest and strangest tightly-held opinions are formed.
Mightn't this be one of them?
63.0×10⁶ S/m for silver
59.6×10⁶ S/m for copper
41.0×10⁶ S/m for gold
35.0×10⁶ S/m for aluminum
10.0×10⁶ S/m for iron
3.30×10⁶ S/m for solder (but variable by composition)
1.45×10⁶ S/m for stainless steel
One could certainly (and mistakenly) say, “well, solder IS bad! look at it!” … but that ignores the context of its use: in well soldered joints, it is a film ranging from dozens of μm to perhaps a millimeter thick, and usually in 'small blob' form, which is far larger than the conductors being joined. Since resistance also depends on diameter … this pretty much 'unhooks' the lower bulk conductivity from having any impact.
So…
Shall we stop?
GoatGuy
A trivial potential divider is not sensitive to the details of the series conductor. It just needs sufficiently good conductivity. I believe it has been shown that for a short interconnect we can safely use 'metals' such as mud and potatoes? Going on about electron shells is the chemical version of those who want to talk about transmission lines for 1.5m audio interconnects: it is at best an attempt to impress the gullible; at worst an admission of ignorance.Max Headroom said:
Like your style ...
Like this!
I also like your footer...Thats a tall order but when it comes to amplifiers John is the man.....He also has very good taste in cables, but then I am biased...!!!😀
Just for clifforest....Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
Like this!
I also like your footer...Thats a tall order but when it comes to amplifiers John is the man.....He also has very good taste in cables, but then I am biased...!!!😀
Just for clifforest....Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
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