Quick Simple Capacitor Advice Please

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#42
Hi

Well I dont have the "expensive" caps - i took the advice here and bought the wima's. But compared to the stock French Polypropylene one that were in there they sound terrible. The Ordinal are old and I believe starting to brake down; they are 400V and the HT line runs at 430V. I get a "Tzzt" on the tweeter at the side i switch the believed "bad" cap to. They sound as if they are NOT doing what you just said "let the music through" - it sounds as if they would rather hold on to it.

The reason I was initially going to buy expensive caps was I wanted to do this job once - I wanted to avoid exactly this. It took 4 trips to the electronics shop to get 4 x 0.47uf & 2 x 0.22uf Wima caps (Please do not ask me to explain - to anyone born in the west it is impossible to understand the vast array of ways the simplest thing can be rendered near impossible in Bulgaria).
 
#43
Then either:

1. The expensive caps are very non-ideal (e.g., microphonics) and you like their inaccuracies
2. There's a circuit problem ahead of the caps that needs to be fixed which you can now hear
3. Your brain is lying to you (Bulgarians are just as human as the rest of us).

The electrical and mechanical aspects of this function are trivially simple.
 
#44
Stuck In Bulgaria said:
Well having been slated to hell and back for mistaking what was apparently helpful capacitor advice for a personal attack*; I did at least have the grace to follow the advice given and installed WIMA caps. So far I have to say I hate them. They have imbued a "tight control" over the music that rather sound like they don't want to let it out of the speakers. Now before I rip the little chaps out - am I missing something ? Do they take 20 hours to "burn in" or something? The values were replaced like for like.
Click to expand...

My sincerest sympathies for your medical situation. Obviously, no fault of yours. Things like this sometimes tend to improve with the passage of time. I hope and pray that a better future is waiting for you.

Congratulations on being self-aware enough to realize that your medical situiton may be affecting your perceptions of the comments that you have received on this forum. I reread the whole thread and don't see where you were attacked.

You might want to consider whether your medical situation is affecting your perception of the sound quality of audio gear.
 
#45
Overvoltage is not good for caps. My guess is that modern components are probably built with less safety margin then before, except where a good safety margin is mentioned in the datasheet as a special feature.


Polypropylene caps tend to be physically large, which can lead to hum pickup and even instability due to capacitive feedback. Remove this and the sound may change, but you may have become used to this sound and so perceive the change as a degradation.
 
#48
All Iconaudio amps are wired p2p, to get diagram, remove bottom plate, take photo and attach to a post.
🙂

I have 3 Icon amps, 2 x st20pp's and a 40pp. The first '20' had a cap with an iron burn mark - didnt bother contacting Icon, I just cut that pair of caps out and replaced them with Wima and it sounds no different to the one with the SCR's.
That amp did sound quite gritty for a week or so, the second one was fired up factory stock and sounded less gritty > smoothing out after a couple or three days.
 
#49
arnyk said:
My sincerest sympathies for your medical situation. Obviously, no fault of yours. Things like this sometimes tend to improve with the passage of time. I hope and pray that a better future is waiting for you.

Congratulations on being self-aware enough to realize that your medical situiton may be affecting your perceptions of the comments that you have received on this forum. I reread the whole thread and don't see where you were attacked.

You might want to consider whether your medical situation is affecting your perception of the sound quality of audio gear.
Click to expand...

It is very kind of you but the reality is i can not expect the world to adjust itself to my new problem and I have to learn coping strategies. we live in a world where sometimes people are being total out of order **** and sometimes that are being amiable - it is important to be able to tell the difference and when to react and when not. The issue I have - i dont know if it is the same for all BD sufferers - is I can not really tell the difference. Given the information I have available my judgement is as good / or bad as ever. The issue is the information I have available is no longer reliable. But not in a bad memory way. Imagine watching a well edited film - you are unaware of what was cut out. You watch a different "cut" and there is a fight sequence in there that they cut from the first - you know that because you saw the original. But the first time viewer has no clue that some bits have been added and other bits chopped out - thats me. It really is NOTING like you think brain damage would be - and it has a lot of plus points, beleive it or not. your sense of humor improves; but sadly you dont get the joke anymore.
 
#50
SY said:
Then either:

1. The expensive caps are very non-ideal (e.g., microphonics) and you like their inaccuracies
2. There's a circuit problem ahead of the caps that needs to be fixed which you can now hear
3. Your brain is lying to you (Bulgarians are just as human as the rest of us).

The electrical and mechanical aspects of this function are trivially simple.
Click to expand...

1) I understand the issue with micro-phonics the difference made moving the amp to a fireplace side that is a huge slab of solid granite cast directly into the building - it was like screws had been tightened up inside the electronics (were they to have such)

2) No where near qualified to comment

3) My brain lies to me all the time ( as just discussed ) but thats nothing to do with being Bulgarian - that i know for 100% certain - Im English.
 
#51
sippy said:
All Iconaudio amps are wired p2p, to get diagram, remove bottom plate, take photo and attach to a post.
🙂
I just cut that pair of caps out and replaced them with Wima and it sounds no different to the one with the SCR's.
That amp did sound quite gritty for a week or so
Click to expand...

Well its the Stereo 40i pp but with the KT 88 option - i think the only difference is a few volts on the HT rail and 500mv bias setting instead of 380mv.

I have been involved in some medical issues that are a sudden feature of my life so i have not been able to listen to it much - only maybe 4 hours but the "trapped in a jam jar" quality that i was initially presented with does seam to be easing up slightly.

Stupid question No (who's keeping count?) - lets say for the sake of argument that components do take time to "burn in" does this have to be active modulated music or will just power on and voltage present / heat present do the same??

http://www.diyaudio.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 
#53
Stuck In Bulgaria said:
Hello - having finally worked out that capacitors have a huge impact on the sound [quality] I would like to ask the following:

My KT88 PP amp has 4 x 0.47uf caps in the audio circuit. The manufacturer has told me these can be changed for values between 0.1uf and 0.47uf. As I am planning on going for Mundorf Mcap Supreme EVO Silver Gold Oil Capacitors [or similar] the difference in cost is HUGE between 0.1uf and 0.47uf.

Additionally it is 2 x 0.22uf caps that (as they put it) dump unwanted signal to ground - again 0.1 to 0.22uf specified.

What difference to the sound will result from 0.1/0.47 and 0.1/0.22 range make?

Many thanks to all those patient enough to reply!!

P.S. I live in Bulgaria and can not get 0.1/0.47 or 0.1/0.47 in the same brand to try this and find out.........
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It's a little late to jump on this thread, but I'm not a big fan of the Mundorf Supreme sound. The top end is sparkly rather than natural. However, you may like that. A cheap and good sounding alternative to try in SS are the Cornell Dubilier's 940C's. I have an AR DAC 8 with Wima's and AR recommends 400 hours of break-in. Not sure if that's true or if they are just creating mystique. My DAC was the demo unit, so if there was any break in it was probably long over by the time I purchased.

I haven't tried replacing the caps in the AR yet.... but I have them sitting in a drawer just waiting for me. 🙂

Erik
 
#55
Well - how about this for an idea?

The Great Capacitor Showdown

Ill get say 6 different types of caps (2 of each) - ill try and stick to say all polyester and ill stick to a common value and voltage - say .47uf 630v (donations will be welcome).

I will embed each cap in solid black resin centrally in a 50mm od alloy tube 100mm long. They will be marked A1 A2, B1 B2, C1 C2 etc. I will provide a nylon board with appropriate screw connectors. there will be 4 fly leads - coloured sensibly for Left + & - Right + & -.

This will enable anyone wanting to participate to remove the appropriate pair of caps - solder the patch leads and quickly (not necessarily safely!) switch between the 6 sets of caps. Obviously this is NOT an ideal situation for pure music quality - but that is not what we are testing - we are testing the notion "are costly caps crap caps"? Infact out-boarding the caps - which will presumably change the sound of the amp on its own, will possibly lover the "the sound im used to" issue.

A Mod (MOD 🙂 ) sets up a list people can add there name to and they PM the previous person on the list with there name and address and the previous person DHL's them to the next.

Ill send the MOD the sealed gold envelope ( you can not buy caps in an electronic components shop here but you can buy 24ct gold leaf at the corner shop - weirdest place on Earth ) with the facts about what cap is in what tube.

And the good thing i s - i only have to wait a day after posting the envelope and i get to play blind as well - because by then Ill have NO idea what was in what tube LOL
 
#56
Stuck In Bulgaria said:
Well its the Stereo 40i pp but with the KT 88 option - i think the only difference is a few volts on the HT rail and 500mv bias setting instead of 380mv.

I have been involved in some medical issues that are a sudden feature of my life so i have not been able to listen to it much - only maybe 4 hours but the "trapped in a jam jar" quality that i was initially presented with does seam to be easing up slightly.

Stupid question No (who's keeping count?) - lets say for the sake of argument that components do take time to "burn in" does this have to be active modulated music or will just power on and voltage present / heat present do the same??

http://www.diyaudio.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
Click to expand...

Roughly:
It was on for an average of 4hrs a day for a week and a half before it sounded smoother....... maybe more as my wife likes her music and played at levels well within the systems capability.
I've noticed the same with re-capping speaker cross-overs as well.
I'd say you need to listen to more music 😉

My 40 came with kt88's and I've had it a year, sounds agreeable with my 10" Tannoy dc's.
I planned on going active with the Tannoys, hence the brace of 20pp's and much reading on this forum.

I suffer from acute social phobia and depression, the two afflictions feed each other and it's bloody hard to deal with at times 🙁
 
#57
I must add, that either amp in the same room plugged into the same supporting system sounds, for all intents and porpoises, the same even with the valve sets swapped.

Maybe they are to 'low-fi' to resolve such things, they are enjoyable and that's what counts.
 
#58
Hi guys - well Im back out of Hospital and back with the never ending capacitor story.......

3 things

1) I ordered Wima MKP 10 "Pulse" Capacitors - when i actually look what I received is MKS4's - is this likely to cause the "dissatisfaction" I had when I installed the Wima caps?

2) After a LOT of burn in - either - they are sounding better or i am getting used to them - but id still rate them as a downgrade in the overall sound of the system

3) I installed these when my GF was away for the weekend and I did NOT mention I had done anything to the hifi, shortly after installing I was in Hospital for two weeks so i have not been around to influence her - this was her comment the first day I got back:

"I dont know what you have dont to the hi fi, but Im sorry to tell you I dont like it. Its got better whilst you have been in hospital - but still - I wish you would change it back"

I make no comment for fear of the wrath it may induce - im still week from the hospital LOL - but I am just putting the info out there for general discussion.

🙂
 
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