So what happens when you run a wire from the hot of your wall outlet and stick it in the dirt outside your house. It sinks a lot of current, forever.
They don't work. You can't make something work by making false assumptions.soongsc said:
You can't 'explain' something which is false. You may be able to explain why some people believe it to be true.
First rule of electronics: if you see current, look for the circuit. There is always a circuit.cbdb said:
That means that there must be another connection to the dirt somewhere. Where do you suppose this might be?
At the transformer in the alley. At the substation. At the hydroelectric generator. There all grounded to ground rods.
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And how can I get a 10ohm resistance between a rod in the ground and my 3rd pin in wall outlet if there's no circuit. The dirt does conduct. Over 6000amps in the video I posted.
The current just uses the dirt as a path to get back to it's voltage source. In this case the voltage source is the Neutral of that big power company transformer down the street. But the dirt is not the best conductor so some of the current will heat the dirt. The dirt is such a poor conduct that in fact if you do that little experiment the circuit breaker probably won't trip. Wait, do do the experiment, it's dangerous.
The main reason for the stake in the garden, is for safety during unusual situations. Situations like thunderstorms or power company high voltage events. We just had one of those HV events down the street. An ice & wind storm dropped an 8000V power line on a home's detached garage. It burned the garage to it's foundation, but without that stake the home's electrical system could have been at 8000V as well.
The ground rod has nothing to do with day-to-day AC power quality.
The ground rod has nothing to do with day-to-day AC power quality.
So it will sink current? I thought you said it wouldn't. My point is that it is part of the power system and can't be ignored.
In many places for much of the year, using two 8 foot ground rods, it hard to get much below 100 Ohms. A 1 foot ground rod in the real world, not a chance of getting 5 or 10 Ohms.
This is not an easy measurement in a powered system. It takes a $2500 meter and 1/2 hour. That's why it's seldom done in US homes. The measurement requirement is 25 Ohms or go to Option B which is just two ground rods.
This is not an easy measurement in a powered system. It takes a $2500 meter and 1/2 hour. That's why it's seldom done in US homes. The measurement requirement is 25 Ohms or go to Option B which is just two ground rods.
It will convert some current to heat, just like a resistor. Notice that a resistor has two terminals just like the path through the dirt. The current is trying to get somewhere else, but some of the current doesn't get to it's destination.
Ha! My memory ain't great anymore (CD) but I think I remember when Bud first posted his innovation here @10 years ago I was intrigued by all the energetic discussion.😀 Bud's explanation of how it might work struck me as unlikely😱😱 but I thought well, if it's damping that's being done, (I couldn't think of any other reason it could work and there is a difference in density of paper and acrylic), then how is it working?
After a couple of days of Googling I found a likely explanation with sufficient 😀woo woo😀: Phononic crystals.😀
That's what Bud was empirically creating with his application of acrylic paint dots and lines to speaker diaphragms' inner and outer circumferences and thus damping some of the energy that otherwise could feed diaphragm mode radiation.
But since there was no formal study and calculation of this idea it was all sort of hit and miss in terms of results: works* with some speakers and not others.
*"Works" means "sounds cleaner," "veil lifted from the sound," etc. Since this is a time domain effect like diffraction from cabinet edges actually measuring a difference is hard.... I haven't looked at that thread in years and don't intend to.😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterials
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en..._occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=
After a couple of days of Googling I found a likely explanation with sufficient 😀woo woo😀: Phononic crystals.😀
That's what Bud was empirically creating with his application of acrylic paint dots and lines to speaker diaphragms' inner and outer circumferences and thus damping some of the energy that otherwise could feed diaphragm mode radiation.
But since there was no formal study and calculation of this idea it was all sort of hit and miss in terms of results: works* with some speakers and not others.
*"Works" means "sounds cleaner," "veil lifted from the sound," etc. Since this is a time domain effect like diffraction from cabinet edges actually measuring a difference is hard.... I haven't looked at that thread in years and don't intend to.😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterials
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en..._occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=
It's part of the safety system. In normal operation it should have no effect. Only if something goes wrong is it required. And at that point it could save your life.
Notice that a conductor has 2 terminals just like a resistor. And resistance, hold on, there the same thing. Whats your point? The current is trying to get back to only one place, the source. The dirt is in parallel with the neutral from your breaker panel to the transformer and there is voltage on that neutral from the load current. And so current thru your dirt back to the transformer ( small leakage current, but it's there. The same happens between pieces of gear. Plug 2 pieces of gear with third pin power cords and metal chassis into 2 different breaker circuits and measure the voltage between there chassis, not zero. Now connect the 2 with unbalanced interconnects. Current from this voltage flows down the neutral and you get a nice ground loop noise. I think those earth boxes are total bs but there's a lot more to grounding then most people realize.
I know sitting around here talking about ground source electrons seems rather silly right now. Look in the mirror guys and think twice.
Yes this is exactly correct!
But in an earlier post, you wrote:
So what happens when you run a wire from the hot of your wall outlet and stick it in the dirt outside your house. It sinks a lot of current, forever.
Which is very different than above post.
I posted a document...
This that I would suggest you read, the ground is not an infinite sink and as I said there these devices bear no resemblance to how signal flow...
This explains the ground myth... and this is what the con is based on. Being involved in PCB layout and system integration (inter component/board/device interconnection) the two main areas of concern are signal integrity and EMC, two sides of the same coin and nowhere does anyone put a box full of muck on the end of a wire, all it will do is act as a very effective antenna, it will not sink noise, which once part of the signal is indistinguishable from it to any components.
The ground myth...
http://sites.ieee.org/ctx-emcs/files/2010/09/Archambeault-Ground-Myth.pdf
Page 15. Loop area first order of concern
There has to be a loop for current flow, a box on the end of a single wire form no part of any loop.
Page 22, 23 describe what Ground is really referring to and:
Page 24 states
"Ground’ is NOT a Current Sink!"
This myth that ground is an infinite current sink is wrong, I would suggest registring with this site and reading Keith Armstrong's guides on practical EMC design.
EMC Information Centre
A giant step for mankind is alike a fool staring into a coffin of mud.
(though this particular one looks more like a nickel-and-dime shoe shine box)
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