Hi All,
Sorry for having dropped out but I didn't receive emails about this thread until tonight. I never bought the behringer. It simply convinced me to keep my hafler transnova p1500 prototype. I hooked it up to my m-audio delta 44 and used software to adjust the volume. It sounded better than my nad 3020 and my rotel ra-812. I then ordered a topping tp32ex on ebay, $160. I'm very happy with the topping. My klipsch f20's are very efficient and this little thing sounds great. The low end is not lacking at all and the soundstage is, to my ears, a bit better than the haler.
cheers
Sorry for having dropped out but I didn't receive emails about this thread until tonight. I never bought the behringer. It simply convinced me to keep my hafler transnova p1500 prototype. I hooked it up to my m-audio delta 44 and used software to adjust the volume. It sounded better than my nad 3020 and my rotel ra-812. I then ordered a topping tp32ex on ebay, $160. I'm very happy with the topping. My klipsch f20's are very efficient and this little thing sounds great. The low end is not lacking at all and the soundstage is, to my ears, a bit better than the haler.
cheers
Don't be sorry. I just thought that you seem to know a lot technically. Nothing between the lines🙂
The only reason I recommend cheap PA amps is that you very often get more value, than cheap semifinished amplifiers with 25 watt 8 ohm if you are lucky.
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I'm glad I found this post. I just purchased the SMSL SA50. I also own the Dayton DTA-100 and Topping TP21. I purchased a Lepai but the build quality was so poor I simply returned it without even listening to it. I also own three of the original Sonic Impact amps (I purchased for $19.99 each several years ago).
SMSL SA50:
Pros: Sonically, this thing is amazing! It's got a punch to the sound that really helps create a lifelike presentation. There's depth to the music that I've only heard with my expensive Cary tube gear (which has been disconnected for the time being).
Cons: It's not as well made as the Topping. The overall case and volume control feel lighter in weight and cheaper. The amp doesn't sit flat on a flat surface. I think the case is twisted slightly - the small rubber feet appear to be the same.
Dayton DTA-100:
Pros: I like the sound from this amp. It's more mellow and relaxed than the SMSL. It's a well made chunk that looks great on the shelf.
Cons: The left and right channel volume is not equal at low volumes. It evens out at higher volumes but is annoying and the reason I decided to try other brands.
Topping TP21:
Pros: This amp looks the best to me and appears to be made better than the Dayton and SMSL on the outside. It's case uses the thickest faceplate and everything looks well made. Unlike the Dayton, the volume is perfectly balanced even at low levels.
Cons: The sound from this amp is the dullest of the group. It's clean and clear but lacks punch and excitement. I moved this amp to my bedroom for quieter listening. It doesn't like to play loudly. Granted, it's less powerful than the others but it really sounds underpowered in comparison.
Overall, they all work well and sound excellent. I'd take any of these over a receiver. It's incredible such good sound is available for under $100!
SMSL SA50:
Pros: Sonically, this thing is amazing! It's got a punch to the sound that really helps create a lifelike presentation. There's depth to the music that I've only heard with my expensive Cary tube gear (which has been disconnected for the time being).
Cons: It's not as well made as the Topping. The overall case and volume control feel lighter in weight and cheaper. The amp doesn't sit flat on a flat surface. I think the case is twisted slightly - the small rubber feet appear to be the same.
Dayton DTA-100:
Pros: I like the sound from this amp. It's more mellow and relaxed than the SMSL. It's a well made chunk that looks great on the shelf.
Cons: The left and right channel volume is not equal at low volumes. It evens out at higher volumes but is annoying and the reason I decided to try other brands.
Topping TP21:
Pros: This amp looks the best to me and appears to be made better than the Dayton and SMSL on the outside. It's case uses the thickest faceplate and everything looks well made. Unlike the Dayton, the volume is perfectly balanced even at low levels.
Cons: The sound from this amp is the dullest of the group. It's clean and clear but lacks punch and excitement. I moved this amp to my bedroom for quieter listening. It doesn't like to play loudly. Granted, it's less powerful than the others but it really sounds underpowered in comparison.
Overall, they all work well and sound excellent. I'd take any of these over a receiver. It's incredible such good sound is available for under $100!
FX Audio D802 could be a winner....Don't bother to buy the Bluetooth version D802C as it is not as good. Bluetooth is not that suitable for quality audio, it is just convenience (which always seems to win !). This little amp has a lot of followers in France that are very enthousiastic. It is a DDX amp so digital inputs and PWM.
I think DDX is the way to go. It saves you from buying a DAC too.
Fx audio D802 afstandsbediening ingang usb/coaxiale/optische hifi 2.0 pure digitale audio versterker 24bit/192 khz 80 w 80 w oled scherm in FX-Audio D802 Remote Control Input USB/Coaxial/Optical HiFi 2.0 Pure Digital Audio Amplifier 24Bit/192KHz 80W+
I think DDX is the way to go. It saves you from buying a DAC too.
Fx audio D802 afstandsbediening ingang usb/coaxiale/optische hifi 2.0 pure digitale audio versterker 24bit/192 khz 80 w 80 w oled scherm in FX-Audio D802 Remote Control Input USB/Coaxial/Optical HiFi 2.0 Pure Digital Audio Amplifier 24Bit/192KHz 80W+
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Well that is the end of the world 😉
You mean the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
Or the "China Export" mark:
https://cemarking.net/chinese-export/
Since I am aware that the CE mark costs money I think that having a genuine CE mark does not necessarily implicate that the device is "better" in any way (nor that it guarantees much). I have seen unsafe CE marked products and CE marked products that failed within a short time. Maybe those were products with fake CE marks ?! Who can tell ?
I just know that the D802 is a good product. the D802C is not that good. As with every consumer product from China I would not leave it powered on unattended but I never do so with these products. They're cheap for a reason 😉 Don't expect MIL specced parts in a 100 Euro amp. They might be a good base for modding and enjoying the hobby though.
* Today I had a chit chat with a large car/motorcycle exporter (only new stuff like overstock or stuff from companies that did not meet their sales target and don't want to drop prices on A brands...) and the guy told me that not every country asks for "papers" with a new car. Europe, Australia and the US need papers. He told me that new overstock cars go to Nigeria and the papers are used to heat the stove there 🙂 We are just used to paperwork and even want more paperwork and larger safety labels every year, some countries don't bother at all. You just ask for a license plate, nobody asks for emission, safety etc. Not good at all, but on the other hand we might exaggerate somewhat with our directives...
You mean the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
Or the "China Export" mark:
https://cemarking.net/chinese-export/
Since I am aware that the CE mark costs money I think that having a genuine CE mark does not necessarily implicate that the device is "better" in any way (nor that it guarantees much). I have seen unsafe CE marked products and CE marked products that failed within a short time. Maybe those were products with fake CE marks ?! Who can tell ?
I just know that the D802 is a good product. the D802C is not that good. As with every consumer product from China I would not leave it powered on unattended but I never do so with these products. They're cheap for a reason 😉 Don't expect MIL specced parts in a 100 Euro amp. They might be a good base for modding and enjoying the hobby though.
* Today I had a chit chat with a large car/motorcycle exporter (only new stuff like overstock or stuff from companies that did not meet their sales target and don't want to drop prices on A brands...) and the guy told me that not every country asks for "papers" with a new car. Europe, Australia and the US need papers. He told me that new overstock cars go to Nigeria and the papers are used to heat the stove there 🙂 We are just used to paperwork and even want more paperwork and larger safety labels every year, some countries don't bother at all. You just ask for a license plate, nobody asks for emission, safety etc. Not good at all, but on the other hand we might exaggerate somewhat with our directives...
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I have children in the house, and a cat - and I think safety is more important than cheap amplifiers from ebay or aliexpress. A used Panasonic SA-XR55 goes for 100$ and have 6 channels of TI direct digital amplification.
I know you can't be safe buying branded products - just look at Apple and their chargers - but at least do something about it, I don't think the small chinese reseller gives a damn.
I know you can't be safe buying branded products - just look at Apple and their chargers - but at least do something about it, I don't think the small chinese reseller gives a damn.
If you think safety is mostly dependent on regulations you dismiss competent engineers that are not in the situation to certify their products. Obviously this specific product has been designed with some care and it even has speaker protection which is as rare as hens teeth in these kind of amps. Saying that the reseller does not give a damn is an assumption. On the other hand one learns from buying the third phone charger for 3$ on dx.com as the previous 2 have blown up 🙂 There is well designed stuff, a lot of mediocre stuff and an enormous load of cheap crap made in China. Then there are the A brands that have their stuff made in some of the same factories and add a mark up. Food for thought: stuff that is sold in large numbers will often but not always have the least defects 😀
Of course I do understand what you mean and having CE certification would be nice. One must be careful but who can guarantee what the previous owner of that Pioneer (which is not a DDX device) has done with that amp ? Besides that I have seen faults in A branded devices like emitting copious amounts of EMI or safety issues. It is all relative. If we start to believe some institute is absolutely necessary to issue some kind of qualification to a product we will loose our own ability to discern quality. We will need even more high paid guys and girls in Strasbourg, Brussels and Luxembourg then.
One precaution can be to order such amps without the adapter and buy or build a good one yourself. Many chinese amps are used with adapters as liability for safety is on the producer of the PSU not on the manufacturer of the amp. That is why you see very little chinese cheap amps with built in 230V PSU's. Second bonus is that chances are unlikely that you can have an electrical shock with an amp fed by an adapter carrying DC 20V.
Of course I do understand what you mean and having CE certification would be nice. One must be careful but who can guarantee what the previous owner of that Pioneer (which is not a DDX device) has done with that amp ? Besides that I have seen faults in A branded devices like emitting copious amounts of EMI or safety issues. It is all relative. If we start to believe some institute is absolutely necessary to issue some kind of qualification to a product we will loose our own ability to discern quality. We will need even more high paid guys and girls in Strasbourg, Brussels and Luxembourg then.
One precaution can be to order such amps without the adapter and buy or build a good one yourself. Many chinese amps are used with adapters as liability for safety is on the producer of the PSU not on the manufacturer of the amp. That is why you see very little chinese cheap amps with built in 230V PSU's. Second bonus is that chances are unlikely that you can have an electrical shock with an amp fed by an adapter carrying DC 20V.
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I guess we have different oppinion. I don't think it should be up to to the end customer to validate certificates. I know there can be issues from certified electronics, but at least the maker have to live up to the standards, and correct the issues, and take back the products from the market.
I have bought several amplifiers modules from China, and most of them have been crap, either sound wise, quality or both. Product support have been non existing in all cases. There is communicaton, but no solutions.
I have bought several amplifiers modules from China, and most of them have been crap, either sound wise, quality or both. Product support have been non existing in all cases. There is communicaton, but no solutions.
If you would buy Danish and I would buy Dutch CE certified stuff I guess we would not even bother to look at Chinese amps 😉
Regarding product support: often also non existing with domestic produced electronics...Times are a changing.
Regarding product support: often also non existing with domestic produced electronics...Times are a changing.
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Domestic produced electronics is almost non-existing. But I have stopped buying electronics from Aliexpress/China, and only connectors and just trying some tweeters as well. Amplifier modules are now CE marked and from Italy. I would love to buy danish modules, but Icepower and Pascal audio dont sell in small quantities.
I must admit that I was a little addicted, trying to find the ultimate 20$ amplifier module😀
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